[00:00:02]
UH, MY NAME IS JOANNA REMAN AND I AM, UH, VERY PROUD TO SERVE ON THE BOARD OF THE FRIENDS OF THE HASTINGS, UH, LIBRARY.
UM, A FEW QUICK NOTES BEFORE WE BEGIN.
UM, FIRST, UH, THIS IS, UH, A MONTH WHERE WE ARE AWASH IN TERRIFIC NON-FICTION AUTHORS HERE AT THE LIBRARY.
NEXT WEEK ON MAY 29TH, SUSAN DOMINUS, UM, WHO LIVES IN HASTINGS, WILL BE SPEAKING ABOUT HER, UH, NEW BOOK, THE FAMILY DYNAMIC.
UH, SUSAN HAS BEEN EVERYWHERE.
SHE'S BEEN ON MORNING JOE AND THE, UH, NEW YORK TIMES MAGAZINE, UM, NEW YORK TIMES MAGAZINE LAST WEEK, AND AT THE 92ND STREET Y AND SHE'S ALSO GONNA BE HERE AT THE HASTINGS LIBRARY.
ALSO, UH, THE LIBRARY GALA IS COMING UP ON, UH, SUNDAY, JUNE 8TH.
SO PLEASE SET YOUR DVRS TO RECORD THE TONY'S AND THEN COME HERE.
AND THIS ROOM WILL BE FILLED AND I MEAN, FILLED WITH SONG.
UH, THE THEME THIS YEAR IS ANYTHING GOES, WE ARE GONNA HAVE SIX VERY, VERY TALENTED, UM, MEN AND WOMEN SINGING, AND THEY'RE GONNA BE SINGING SONGS THAT THEY WOULD NOT NORMALLY BE CAST FOR.
I THINK THAT'S WHAT ANYTHING GOES MEANS.
UM, IN ADDITION TO THE GALA PERFORMANCE, WE HAVE A, A SILENT AUCTION.
THE ITEMS WENT ON DISPLAY UPSTAIRS.
WE HAVE MORE THAN 80 FANTASTIC.
LOTS, SO PLEASE, UH, BID ON THEM ANYTIME OR AT THE GALA AND SUPPORT OF THE FRIENDS, UM, MAKES PROGRAMS LIKE THIS ONE THIS EVENING POSSIBLE.
ALSO, SOME OF YOU MIGHT BE HERE BECAUSE YOU READ ABOUT, UM, MR. JONATHAN ROSEN, UH, IN THE DISPATCH.
AND I REALLY ENCOURAGE YOU, UM, TO SUBSCRIBE TO THE DISPATCH.
SO, UM, SO THERE ARE TWO KINDS OF PEOPLE HERE.
THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE READ JONATHAN ROSEN'S BOOK, THE BEST MINDS, AND THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO SHOULD READ JONATHAN ROSEN'S BOOK,
UM, UM, A FRIEND RECOMMENDED THE BOOK TO ME, UH, A YEAR AGO BECAUSE PART OF THE STORY TAKES PLACE IN HASTINGS.
SHE REALLY RECOMMENDED IT TO ME BECAUSE IT'S AN EXCELLENT BOOK AND ABOUT SO MUCH MORE THAN THE TRAGIC EVENTS THAT OCCURRED HERE.
AND WE ARE JUST HONORED AND DELIGHTED THAT, UH, JONATHAN AGREED TO COME UP UP TO HASTINGS.
AND, UM, WE, WE WILL LISTEN TO JONATHAN TALK ABOUT HIS, ABOUT HIS BOOK.
HE WILL TAKE A FEW QUESTIONS, AND AT THE END HE WILL SIGN BOOKS.
WE HAVE A, A FEW COPIES FOR SALE IN THE BACK FOR $20.
CAN PEOPLE HEAR ME? IF YOU SUDDENLY CAN'T LET ME KNOW.
I'M, I'M JUST, I'M NOT TEXTING, I'M JUST MAKING SURE
I WOULD LOVE TO BE ABLE TO HAVE TIME FOR QUESTIONS.
UM, AND, UH, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, JOANNA.
THANK YOU, UH, FOR COMING EVERYBODY.
UM, IT'S EXTREMELY, UH, MOVING FOR ME TO BE IN HASTINGS.
IT'S STRANGE FOR ME TO BE IN HASTINGS.
UH, AND I'VE HAD THE SAME EXPERIENCE WHEN I HAVE SPOKEN OR READ IN NEW ROCHELLE.
THERE'S ANOTHER PLACE CENTRAL TO THE BOOK, AND ALSO AT YALE.
SO FAR I'VE MET LIKE FIVE PEOPLE FROM YALE, THREE PEOPLE FROM NEW ROCHELLE, AND I GUESS YOU'RE ALL FROM HASTINGS
UM, BUT, UH, THERE'S A WAY IN WHICH PLACE IS REALLY IMPORTANT IN, IN THE STORIES THAT I'M TELLING.
UH, I DON'T KNOW, AGAIN, HOW MANY OF YOU, UH, HAVE READ THE BOOK, BUT I I WILL EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENS.
EVEN ITS MOST TRAGIC ELEMENT, UH, IT DOESN'T REALLY UNDO WHAT IT MEANS TO READ THE BOOK.
UH, AND I'LL TALK ABOUT THAT IN A MINUTE ALSO.
UH, BUT I WANT TO JUST SAY SOMETHING A LITTLE MORE ABOUT, UH, HASTINGS, WHICH, AS I SAID, THEY ALL THESE PLACES ALL BECAME LIKE CHARACTERS IN THE BOOK FOR ME.
UM, PARTLY IN CASE OF NEW ROCHELLE, BECAUSE I LIVED THERE FROM THE TIME I WAS 10 AND SHARED A VERY SHORT STREET WITH MY FRIEND MICHAEL, WHO, UH, TRAGIC STORY IS, IS IS PART OF THIS BOOK.
UH, BUT ALSO BECAUSE OF THE PEOPLE THAT I MET WHEN I CAME HERE, FOR EXAMPLE, I SPOKE TO EDDIE SCHECHTER, WHO'S AN EXTRAORDINARY MAN, AND WAS THE RABBI OF TEMPLE BETH SHALOM.
AND THE, AND I SPOKE TO A GUY NAMED VINCENT CHEVONE, WHO WAS A POLICE OFFICER IN CHARGE OF THE INGS POLICE AT, UH, LET ME SEE IF I MAKE THIS HIGHER.
IT MAY FALL OFF WITH A BIG BANG, BUT THAT'LL BE,
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I'LL JUST PUT IT BACK ON.UM, SO, UH, I, I SPOKE TO EDDIE SCHECHTER AND I SAT, HE SAID TO ME, THIS IS WHAT, I GUESS WHAT I WANNA SAY IS THAT THE PEOPLE I MET IN PLACES LIKE HASTINGS WEREN'T SIMPLY PEOPLE I WAS INTERVIEWING.
THEY WERE PART OF THE STORY AS WELL AS PEOPLE HELPING ME UNDERSTAND THE STORY.
AND IN SOME SENSE, COLLABORATORS.
BUT THAT'S PARTLY BECAUSE OF HOW GENEROUS THEY WERE WITH THEIR TIME AND MORE THAN THEIR TIME, THEIR, UH, SENSE OF BEING IMPLICATED IN THE STORY.
UH, THE RABBI AT BETH SHALOM WAS THE LAST PERSON TO HAVE MET WITH MICHAEL, MY CHILDHOOD FRIEND WHO LIVED HERE AND WHO KILLED HIS PREGNANT FIANCE HERE.
UM, HE SUFFERED FROM SCHIZOPHRENIA.
HE HAD STOPPED TAKING HIS MEDICATION.
AND, UH, PART OF THE STORY IS THAT TRAGIC OCCURRENCE, BUT PART OF IT IS ALSO THE LARGER WORLD WE GREW UP IN, AND HOW IT WAS THAT WHEN HE BECAME SICK AND NEEDED HELP, THE, THE WORLD THAT OUGHT TO HAVE BEEN THERE TO SUPPORT HIM WAS GONE.
UM, BUT UH, WHEN I SPOKE TO VINCE VINCENT CHEVONE, WHO WAS LIKE ACTING CHIEF THE DAY THAT MICHAEL KILLED, CAREY IS AN ENORMOUSLY COMPASSIONATE AND THOUGHTFUL MAN.
AND I KNOW THAT THE POLICE STATION IS NOT FAR FROM HERE.
AND MICHAEL LIVED NEXT DOOR TO THE POLICE STATION.
AND SOMETHING VINCENT SAID TO ME, WHAT HAD BEEN SAID TO HIM BY THE ASSISTANT DISTRICT ATTORNEY ON, ON THE CASE, IS THAT THERE'S ALWAYS A CIRCLE OF VICTIMIZATION.
AND THAT THE PEOPLE HE SENT TO CHECK ON MICHAEL AND CARRIE, WHO FOUND WHAT HAD HAPPENED, AND THE FAMILY, OF COURSE, OF CARRIE AND THE FAMILY OF MY FRIEND MICHAEL, AND ON AND ON AND OUTWARD AND OUTWARD UNTIL IT REALLY ENCOMPASSED A VERY LARGE WORLD.
AND I KEEP REEN ENCOUNTERING THAT WORLD JUST AS I, WHENEVER I SPEAK ABOUT MY BOOK.
AND IT WAS AN INCREDIBLY BEAUTIFUL THING TO SAY BECAUSE WHAT HE ACTUALLY SAID TO ME IS, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE IN THAT CIRCLE TOO.
YOU NEED TO BE MINDFUL OF THAT.
AND AGAIN, HE WAS SOMEONE WHO WAS ENORMOUSLY GENEROUS IN HELPING ME UNDERSTAND THE PHYSICAL WORLD IN WHICH THESE THINGS HAPPENED.
UM, BUT ALSO THE LARGER PSYCHOLOGICAL WORLD, BECAUSE POLICE HAVE BEEN LEFT WITH A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT.
POLICE HAVE BEEN MET, LEFT WITH A LOT TO DO, UH, IN CARING FOR, UH, PEOPLE WITH SEVERE MENTAL ILLNESS.
IT'S NOT THEIR JOB, BUT IT HAS, THE PEOPLE WHO OUGHT TO BE DOING IT HAVE KIND OF ABDICATED THEIR RESPONSIBILITY.
AND SO THAT WAS ALSO VERY POWERFUL FOR ME.
I ALSO TALKED TO A GUY NAMED WILLARD GALEN, WHO WAS A PSYCHIATRIST WHO LIVED IN HASTINGS, UH, WHO DIED JUST A FEW YEARS AGO.
UM, AND HE HAD WRITTEN A BOOK.
HE ALSO HELPED CREATE THE HASTINGS CENTER, WHICH WAS HERE ONCE, I'M SURE YOU ALL KNOW THAT.
AND ADDRESSED THE KINDS OF MORAL CHALLENGES THAT ARE KEPT, KEPT COMING UP IN THE COURSE OF MY WRITING THIS BOOK.
SO ALL OF THIS IS JUST TO SAY THAT I'M REALLY MOVED TO BE HERE AND I'M GRATEFUL TO BE HERE.
WHEN I SPOKE IN NEW ROCHELLE, I WAS ACTUALLY RIGHT OUTSIDE OF THE SANCTUARY, AND I WILL NOT BE DISCUSSING THAT CHAPTER, BUT IF YOU WANNA READ ABOUT MY BAR MITZVAH AND ITS SORROWS, YOU CAN.
AND RIGHT BEFORE I STARTED, SOMEBODY SAID, IS THAT THE ROOM WHERE IT ALL, YOU KNOW? AND I WAS LIKE, YES, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
I'D, I'D LIKE ACTUALLY TO JUST GIVE MY READING
UM, SO I GUESS WHAT I, WHAT I WANT TO DO A LITTLE BIT IS EXPLAIN SOMETHING ABOUT HOW I, NOT SO MUCH HOW I WROTE THE BOOK, BUT HOW I STRUCTURED IT.
BECAUSE THERE ARE A LOT OF STORIES IN THE BOOK, AND I THOUGHT, AND PEOPLE OFTEN SAY, WELL, HOW DID YOU COME TO TELL THE STORY? THERE WASN'T A SINGLE STORY I WAS TELLING.
I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THE STORY WAS.
UM, I WAS HAVING INITIALLY AN ENCOUNTER WITH SOMETHING THAT WAS DREADFUL, THAT I HAD SPENT A LONG TIME NOT WRITING ABOUT AND IN CERTAIN WAYS NOT THINKING ABOUT.
AND THAT WAS THAT MY BEST FRIEND FROM CHILDHOOD, UH, WHO I MET, LIKE THE DAY WE MOVED TO NEW ROCHELLE, UM, WHO WAS VERY, VERY BRILLIANT AND GOOD AT EVERYTHING I WAS NOT GOOD AT, 'CAUSE I HAD DYSLEXIA, THOUGH I DIDN'T KNOW IT THEN.
I DIDN'T KNOW IT THEN, BUT WE WERE BOTH GOING TO BE VERY SMART TOGETHER.
AND HE WAS VERY GOOD 'CAUSE HE READ INCREDIBLY FAST AND HAD A PHOTOGRAPHIC MEMORY.
SO HE WOULD TELL ME THE PLOTS OF THE BOOKS WE WERE GOING TO READ.
I HAD A WHOLE SHELF THAT CONSISTED ALMOST ENTIRELY OF THE BOOKS HE HAD SUMMARIZED FOR ME, LIKE AN IMAGINARY SHELF.
AND IN FACT, THE ONE THING I ACTUALLY WANTED TO SAY BEFORE I STARTED WAS THAT I'M REALLY GLAD TO BE AT A PUBLIC LIBRARY, FIRST OF ALL, 'CAUSE THEY'RE SO IMPORTANT.
UH, SECOND OF ALL, 'CAUSE IN NEW ROCHELLE, UH, THE PUBLIC
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LIBRARY WAS ONE OF THE PLACES I WOULD GO.MY MOTHER WOULD GO THERE AND I WOULD TAKE OUT SPOKEN WORD RECORDS AND, UH, LISTEN TO THEM AND MEMORIZE POEMS SO THAT I WOULD HAVE MY PORTABLE LIBRARY OF THINGS I TOO COULD RECITE.
I DIDN'T HAVE A PHOTOGRAPHIC MEMORY, BUT I COULD COMMIT A SONNET OR SOMETHING TO MEMORY.
AND SO WHEN I READ A NEW ROCHELLE, I MENTIONED THAT 'CAUSE THE LIBRARY SPONSORED ME.
AND I SAID, SO I PICTURED THOSE RECORDS.
AND THEN I REALIZED THOSE RECORDS AREN'T THERE ANYMORE.
ARE THEY
SO, UM, I, I'VE MENTIONED THE MOST TRAGIC THING THAT HAPPENS IN THE BOOK, WHICH HAPPENED TO HAPPEN HERE IN HASTINGS.
BUT I, I, AND I INITIALLY IMAGINED THAT I WOULD WRITE THE BOOK IN A KIND OF JOURNALISTIC WAY, BUT I REALIZED I DID NOT WANT TO START WITH THE WORST THING THAT HAPPENED.
AND I DIDN'T WANT TO DESCRIBE MY FRIEND THROUGH THE PRISM OF THAT CALAMITY.
AND THAT WHAT I REALLY NEEDED TO DO WAS GO BACK TO CHILDHOOD AND TELL IT FORWARD.
UM, BECAUSE IT'S VERY EASY LOOKING BACK FOR THINGS TO LOOK INEVITABLE.
AND I WAS ALSO, IT TOOK ME 10 YEARS TO WRITE THE BOOK.
AND IT WAS VERY EASY TO FEEL HOW MANY PEOPLE HAD DONE SUCH, EITHER NOT DONE WHAT THEY COULD HAVE DONE OR SHOULD HAVE DONE, UM, OR DID THINGS THAT MADE THE SYSTEM THAT NEEDED TO PROVIDE CARE MUCH WORSE.
BUT WHEN I WENT BACK AND KIND OF INHABITED IT AS IT UNFOLDED, I WAS MUCH LESS ANGRY.
'CAUSE IN ONE'S OWN LIFE ALSO, I DID TONS OF STUPID THINGS.
AND WHEN YOU'RE MAKING A DECISION INSIDE OF THE MOMENT, IT ISN'T THE SAME AS, AS AS IT IS SIMPLY READING ABOUT IT AS IF LIFE CONSISTED OF A SERIES OF CHOICES AND YOU COULD JUST MAKE THE WRONG ONES.
AND SO, IN A SENSE, I DECIDED TO WRITE IT ALMOST LIKE A NOVEL.
UH, EVERYTHING IN IT IS REAL AND ACTUAL, BUT I'VE WRITTEN NOVELS BEFORE AND I THOUGHT IT WAS MORE IMPORTANT TO EMBODY THE ACTION AND IMAGINE MY WAY INTO IT.
UH, AND UM, AND SO THAT'S WHAT I DID.
THE BOOK IS DIVIDED INTO FOUR HOUSES, AND EACH HOUSE IS A REAL HOUSE, BUT EACH HOUSE EXCEPT FOR THE LAST ONE.
BUT, UH, BUT THEY'RE ALSO EMBLEMATIC IN THEIR WAY.
AND, UM, I'M GONNA READ JUST A TINY BIT FROM EACH OF THOSE HOUSES, JUST TO GIVE A SENSE OF WHAT, OF HOW THE BOOK IS ORGANIZED.
UH, THE FIRST HOUSE IS THE HOUSE ON MARYLAND ROAD.
THAT'S THE HOUSE I GREW UP IN IN NEW ROCHELLE.
UH, OR IT'S THE HOUSE MICHAEL GREW UP IN, IN NEW ROCHELLE.
THERE ARE ONLY ABOUT SEVEN HOUSES ON OUR STREET.
AND IT'S, IT'S THE SUBURBAN WORLD.
IT'S THE WORLD OF SAFE HOUSES.
IT'S THE WORLD OF SHORT STREETS, UM, AND OF A CERTAIN KIND OF POSSIBILITY.
UH, THE SECOND HOUSE IS THE HOUSE OF PSYCHIATRY.
THERE REALLY WAS A BIG BEAUTIFUL HOUSE OWNED BY TWO PSYCHIATRISTS WHO HELPED MICHAEL GET A LOT OF HIS CARE.
THEY WERE COMMUNITY PSYCHIATRISTS AND THEY ALSO BELIEVED IN EMPTYING ALL THE STATE HOSPITALS.
AND SO, IN A WAY, THEIR VISION, WHICH WAS A BEAUTIFUL VISION OF COMMUNITY CARE, IT WAS ALSO A TRAGIC VISION BECAUSE IT WAS A TERRIBLE FAILURE.
AND, UM, BUT IT WAS A FANTASTIC HOUSE.
AND, UM, MICHAEL USED TO GO THERE AT PARTIES 'CAUSE WE WERE FRIENDS WITH THE SON OF THE FAMILY.
IT WAS A HUSBAND AND WIFE WHO WERE BOTH PSYCHIATRISTS MARRIED TO EACH OTHER.
I NEVER WENT TO THE PARTIES, BUT, UM, I HEARD ALL ABOUT THEM.
AND WHEN MICHAEL BEGAN TO BECOME ILL, HE MOVED INTO THE ATTIC OF THAT HOUSE.
AND IN FACT, WHEN HE WAS IN WHAT'S CALLED THE PRODROMAL PERIOD, WHEN YOU ARE SHOWING SYMPTOMS OF, IN HIS CASE, SCHIZOPHRENIA, YOU'RE ALREADY DELUSIONAL, BUT YOU YOURSELF DON'T KNOW IT.
AND NO ONE ELSE NECESSARILY DOES EITHER.
THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME I HEARD ABOUT HASTINGS.
HE USED TO COME HERE TO PLAY MUSIC AT THE BOOKSTORE AT RIVER RUN.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT BOOKSTORE IS STILL HERE.
UM, IT WAS HERE WHEN I VISITED AND SPOKE TO EDDIE SCHECHTER.
UM, SO HE, I GUESS THERE WAS A PLACE UPSTAIRS WHERE ONCE A WEEK HE WOULD PLAY MUSIC.
HE BECAME CONVINCED THAT THE MUSICIANS HE WAS PLAYING WITH WERE OCCULT OR WERE SPIES AND WERE FOLLOWING HIM HOME.
AND, UM, SO HE WOULD HIDE, YOU KNOW, HE WOULD, UM, HE WOULD TAKE ELABORATE ROUTE TO GET HOME TO DITCH THE PEOPLE HE WAS SURE WERE FOLLOWING HIM.
AND, UH, HE NEVER SHARED THAT PART WITH ME.
ONLY THAT HE WENT TO PLAY MUSIC AT A PLACE CALLED RIVER RUN, WHICH I KNEW CAME FROM FINNEGAN'S WAKE AND SOUNDS SO BEAUTIFUL.
AND I JUST THOUGHT, WOW, WHAT A WONDERFUL LIFE HE HAS.
UM, THE THIRD HOUSE IS THE HOUSE OF
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LAW.UH, AND I'LL MENTION A LITTLE BIT HOW THIS WORKS, BUT LAW AND PSYCHIATRY KIND OF GOT MARRIED IN THE SIXTIES.
NOT TO GREAT EFFECT, UH, BUT, UH, THE, YOU KNOW, PSYCHIATRY KIND OF ENTERED THE COURTHOUSE AND BECAME AN ADVISOR TO THE LAW.
AND LAWYERS IN MANY WAYS MADE DECISIONS THAT PSYCHIATRISTS SHOULD HAVE MADE ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT PEOPLE SHOULD BE HOSPITALIZED.
BUT IN ANY CASE, THE HOUSE OF LAW IS YALE LAW SCHOOL.
MICHAEL WENT TO YALE LAW SCHOOL AFTER HE HAD SCHIZO, HAD A PSYCHOTIC BREAK, BUT HE HAD APPLIED BEFORE.
AND HIS PROFESSORS WERE EXTRAORDINARY PEOPLE, MANY OF WHOM HAD CLERKED FOR THE JUDGES WHO HAD CHANGED THE LAWS IN THE FIFTIES AND SIXTIES, THAT MADE IT ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO GET HOSPITALIZED IF YOU NEEDED TO GET HOSPITALIZED.
AND SO FOR THEM TOO, AS WITH THE POLICE OFFICER HERE AND THE RABBI WHO MET WITH MICHAEL THE DAY BEFORE HE KILLED CARRIE, THEY WERE ALL PART OF THE STORY.
THEY HAD AN ENCOUNTER AS I WAS HAVING WITH ITS MEANING AND WITH THEIR OWN ROLE IN IT.
AND THAT WAS AN EXTRAORDINARY EXPERIENCE ALSO.
UM, AND THEN THE FINAL CHAPTER, UH, EXCUSE ME, THE FINAL HOUSE IS THE HOUSE.
IT'S CALLED THE HOUSE OF DREAMS AND MICHAEL'S STORY, AND THIS IS THE NATURE OF THINGS I'VE ALREADY MET HERE, THE TIMES REPORTER WHO WROTE A STORY ABOUT MICHAEL THAT APPEARED IN THE NEW YORK TIMES THAT LED RON HOWARD TO BUY HIS LIFE STORY FOR AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF MONEY, WHICH IS HOW MICHAEL WAS ABLE TO MOVE TO HASTINGS.
AND SO THE HOUSE OF DREAMS IS HOLLYWOOD, BUT NONE OF THE HOUSES ARE HERMETIC.
AND SO IN THE SAME WAY THAT LAW LEAKED INTO PSYCHIATRY, AND PSYCHIATRY BLED INTO LAW THE HOUSE OF DR, THEY WERE ALL HOUSES OF DREAMS. MICHAEL AND I WERE ALWAYS DREAMING OF WHAT WE WERE GOING TO BE, WE WERE GONNA BE WRITERS WHEN WE WERE GROWING UP.
AND, UM, THE HOUSE OF PSYCHIATRY, OF COURSE, NOT JUST BECAUSE IT INTERPRETS DREAMS, BUT BECAUSE IT, AT LEAST IN WHEN IT WAS RULED BY PSYCHOANALYSIS, WAS ITSELF A KIND OF DREAM OF HEALING EVERYONE BY GETTING THEM TO TALK ABOUT SOMETHING FROM THEIR PAST, WHICH IS A WRITER'S FANTASY.
YOU'LL TELL A STORY BOUND UP WITH YOUR PAST AND MAKE YOURSELF WHOLE OR WELL, THAT IT WAS UNFORTUNATELY A DISASTER FOR PEOPLE WITH SEVERE MENTAL ILLNESS.
BUT IN ANY CASE, THE HOUSE OF DREAMS WAS ALSO JUST HOW MICHAEL'S TRAGIC STORY BEFORE ANYTHING TRAGIC HAD HAPPENED.
BUT HE WAS A PERSON FILLED WITH PROMISE.
HE WAS BRILLIANT, AND HE GOT A TERRIBLE ILLNESS, WHICH HE WAS DIAGNOSED WITH, BUT SOMEHOW THE STORY OF THAT ILLNESS WAS GOING TO, HAD LITERALLY CHANGED HIS LIFE AND WAS GOING TO BECOME A MOVIE.
UNFORTUNATELY, RIGHT BEFORE THEY STARTED FILMING, UM, MICHAEL HAD GONE OFF HIS MEDICATION AND HE KILLED HIS PREGNANT FIANCE.
AND RON HOWARD MADE A BEAUTIFUL MIND INSTEAD, A BOOK THAT WAS FIRST A BOOK THAT WAS EXCERPTED IN VANITY FAIR, THE VERY MONTH THAT HE KILLED CARRIE.
AND THAT'S WHEN RON HOWARD AND HIS PARTNER DECIDED, HERE'S A STORY ABOUT SCHIZOPHRENIA WITH A HAPPY ENDING, AND LET'S DO THAT.
UM, SO THAT'S, THOSE ARE THE FOUR HOUSES.
UM, AND THEY'RE REALLY JUST CONTAINERS.
UH, AS I SAY, THEY, THEY SHARE CONTENTS.
BUT, UH, THE MOST IMPORTANT THING FOR ME WAS REALIZING THAT I WANTED TO GO BACK TO MY CHILDHOOD HOUSE AND TELL THE STORY AS IT UNFOLDED.
UM, SO I'M GONNA READ JUST A LITTLE BIT BEFORE THE OPENING HOU UH, HOUSE
UH, BUT BEFORE I GET THERE, I WANT TO, THERE ARE A LOT OF EPIGRAPHS IN THE, I'M NOT GONNA READ ALL THE EPIGRAPHS, BUT EI LOVE EPIGRAPHS.
I SOMETIMES THINK IT'S 'CAUSE I AM DYSLEXIC.
AND SO, LIKE A LITTLE POEM, A LITTLE BIT OF A POEM WENT A LONG WAY.
AND IT WAS PART OF MY ARSENAL OF LITERATURE THAT I COULD QUOTE FROM.
AND JUST ALSO BECAUSE I GREW UP IN A FAMILY.
MY MOTHER'S A WRITER, MY FA MY MOTHER WAS A WRITER, AND MY FATHER WAS A PROFESSOR OF LITERATURE.
EVERYBODY WAS ALWAYS QUOTING LITERATURE.
AND IN A WAY IT WAS ALMOST LIKE IF YOU COULD FIND A QUOTATION FROM LITERATURE, IT VALIDATED YOUR ACTUAL EXPERIENCE, WHICH IS ALSO IN ITS WAY BOUND UP WITH SOME OF THE MISPERCEPTIONS, LET'S SAY, IN, IN THAT THAT ULTIMATELY CONTRIBUTED IN THEIR WAY TO THE TRAGEDY.
ALTHOUGH HERE I AM HAVING WRITTEN A BOOK.
ANYWAY, THE OPENING EPIGRAPH, UM, IS FROM WILLIAM BUTLER YATES.
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THE MYSTERIOUS ONE, WHO YET SHALL WALK THE WET SANDS BY THE EDGE OF THE STREAM AND LOOK MOST LIKE ME, BEING INDEED MY DOUBLE AND PROVE OF ALL IMAGINABLE THINGS THE MOST UNLIKE BEING MY ANTI SELF.AND THEN PART ONE, THE HOUSE ON MARYLAND ROAD, ANOTHER LITTLE EPIGRAPH, THIS FROM WALLACE STEVENS.
IT IS AN ILLUSION THAT WE WERE EVER ALIVE, LIVED IN THE HOUSES OF MOTHERS, ARRANGED OURSELVES BY OUR OWN MOTIONS AND A FREEDOM OF AIR.
I AM GOING BACK 50 YEARS BEFORE THE LURID HEADLINES, THE HOLLYWOOD DEAL, THE PUBLISHING CONTRACT, AND THE NEW YORK TIMES PROFILE OF THE ROLE MODEL GENIUS WHO FINISHED YALE LAW SCHOOL AGAINST ALL ODDS BEFORE DELUSIONS MISTAKEN FOR STORIES AND STORIES MISTAKEN FOR LIFE BEFORE THE FANCY CLOTHES YOU BOUGHT FOR MANAGEMENT, CONSULTING AND WAR INTO THE HOSPITAL, THE HALFWAY HOUSE AND THE GATSBY HOUSE, YOU GUARDED WITH A BASEBALL BAT AGAINST ENEMIES DISGUISED AS FRIENDS AND FAMILY GUARDED IN TURN BY BELOVED NEIGHBORS.
I'M GOING BACK TO THE TIME BEFORE YOU GRADUATED FROM YALE SUMMA C*M LOUDER, WHICH I ALWAYS THOUGHT OF AS SUMMA C*M LAUDER SINCE YOU ACHIEVED IN THREE YEARS WHAT I FAILED TO ACCOMPLISH IN FOUR BEFORE HIGH SCHOOL WHERE YOU RAN WHILE I WAS BEATEN.
AND THE HORROR 20 YEARS LATER WHEN IT WAS MY TURN TO RUN, I AM ON A ROAD RACING BACKWARD OUT OF A TRAGIC SORROW WHOSE CIRCLES RADIATE IN ALL DIRECTIONS.
FORGIVE ME, I KNOW THERE IS NO ROAD AND IT ISN'T RACING BACKWARD OR FORWARD.
I KNOW THERE IS NO GOING BACK, BUT HERE I AM ON A SHORT STREET IN NEW ROCHELLE, THERE IS A GREEN AND WHITE COLONIAL HOUSE AT THE TOP OF THE HILL AND A BROWN AND WHITE TUDOR HOUSE AT THE BOTTOM.
THERE ARE TWO 10-YEAR-OLD BOYS WHO LIVE IN THOSE HOUSES.
EVEN NOW, THEY'RE JUST ILLUSIONS, BUT THEY'RE ALSO REAL.
AND THEN I START, I THINK IF I KEEP BENDING OVER THE MICROPHONE
UH, MY BACK IS, I'M JUST GONNA NEVER STAND UP STRAIGHT.
UM, IS THIS BETTER? CAN YOU ALL HEAR ME NOW? YES.
THAT'S WHAT I SHOULD HAVE DONE RIGHT AWAY.
UM, SO THIS GONNA READ A LITTLE BIT OF THE FIRST CHAPTER, WHICH IS CALLED THE SUITABLE PLAYMATE.
AND THAT TITLE COMES FROM THE EPIGRAPH, WHICH IS FROM A LETTER BY CYNTHIA OZI, WHO WAS A GOOD FRIEND OF MY MOTHER'S AND SHE LIVED IN NEW ROCHELLE.
AND SHE WROTE TO ME ABOUT MICHAEL WHEN I ASKED HER, WHEN YOU WERE A SMALL BOY, THE AIM OF THE SUITABLE PLAYMATE COULD NOT HAVE BEEN MORE PERFECTLY FULFILLED ACROSS THE, UH, MORE, MORE SUITABLY FULFILLED EXCUSE.
WHEN YOU WERE A SMALL BOY, THE AIM OF THE SUITABLE PLAYMATE COULD NOT HAVE BEEN MORE PERFECTLY FULFILLED.
ACROSS THE STREET WAS MICHAEL LAUDER, THE IDEAL FRIEND, A BRILLIANT PEER, CYNTHIA OZA.
MY FAMILY MOVED TO NEW ROCHELLE IN 1973.
THERE WERE GOOD SCHOOLS, GREEN LAWNS AND QUAINT SIGNS PAINTED IN THE 1920S, BEARING LEGENDS LIKE ONLY 45 MINUTES FROM BROADWAY AND CITY OF HOMES, CHURCHES AND SCHOOLS.
THOUGH THERE WERE FOUR SYNAGOGUES AND METRO NORTH GOT YOU TO MANHATTAN, THE ROCK AROUND WHICH ALL LIFE REVOLVED IN 33 MINUTES.
BUT THE REAL REASON WE MOVED TO NEW ROCHELLE WAS SO THAT I COULD MEET MICHAEL.
THAT AT LEAST IS WHAT MY MOTHER'S BEST FRIEND, THE WRITER CYNTHIA OZA TOLD ME MORE LETTER.
I HEARD MUCH OF MICHAEL LAUDER WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP AND IN A WAY EVEN BEFORE YOU KNEW OF HIS EXISTENCE.
IN THIS SENSE THAT MICHAEL OR SOMEONE LIKE HIM WAS ALWAYS THE GOAL IN CHOOSING WHERE TO BUY A HOUSE.
MICHAEL, IN OTHER WORDS, WAS INEVITABLE.
I WAS DESTINED TO MEET HIM OR AT LEAST SOMEONE LIKE HIM BECAUSE FRIENDSHIP CANNOT ACTUALLY BE FORETOLD ANY MORE THAN MADNESS OR THE DAY OF YOUR DEATH.
CAN IT? I MET MICHAEL SOON AFTER WE MOVED IN.
AS I WAS EXAMINING A HEAP OF JUNK AT THE PREVIOUS OWNERS HAD LEFT IN A NEAT PILE AT THE EDGE OF OUR LAWN.
I WAS LOOKING FOR RELICS OF THE THREE ATHLETIC BOYS WHO HAD LIVED THERE AND WONDERING IF A SMALL AQUARIUM WAS WORTH SALVAGING.
WHEN A BOY WITH SHAGGY RED BROWN HAIR AND LARGE TINTED AVIATOR GLASSES WALKED OVER TO WELCOME ME TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD, HE WAS TALLER EVEN THAN I WAS GAWKY, BUT WITH A LILTING STRIDE THAT WAS ODDLY PURPOSEFUL FOR A
[00:25:01]
KID OUR AGE IS IF HE ACTUALLY HAD SOME PLACE TO GO.HIS HABIT OF LAUNCHING HIMSELF UP AND FORWARD WITH EVERY STEP GATHERING HEIGHT IN ORDER TO ACHIEVE DISTANCE, WAS SO DISTINCTIVE THAT IT EARNED HIM THE NICKNAME TOES.
HE WAS CALLED TOES UNTIL FIFTH GRADE STARTED WHEN I LEARNED HE WAS ALSO CALLED BIG.
THE SHORTEST KID IN CLASS WAS CALLED SMALL.
AND WHEN THEY LINED US UP IN HEIGHT, ORDER BIG AND SMALL WERE BOOKENDS SENSITIVE TEACHERS SOMETIMES LET THE SHORT KIDS GO FIRST, WHICH I'M SURE DID WONDERS FOR THEIR SELF-ESTEEM.
BIG IS LESS IMAGINATIVE THAN TOES, BUT HOW MANY KIDS GET TWO NICKNAMES? AND MICHAEL WAS BIG.
NOT BIG LIKE HAL, WHO APPEARED TO BE ATTENDING FIFTH GRADE ON THE GI BILL, BUT THROUGH SOME SUBTLE COMBINATION OF HEIGHT, INTELLIGENCE, POSTURE, AND WILLPOWER IN BROOKLINE, THE BOSTON SUBURB WHERE MY FAMILY HAD LIVED FOR THREE YEARS BEFORE MOVING TO NEW ROCHELLE, I'D BEEN TALLER THAN ALL MY FRIENDS, BUT NOBODY WOULD'VE CALLED ME BIG.
I SETTLED TOO EASILY AT THE BOTTOM OF MYSELF IN A SHY SEDIMENT.
MICHAEL WAS ONLY AN INCH OR TWO TALLER THAN ME AND JUST AS SKINNY.
BUT HE SEEMED TO ENJOY TAKING UP SPACE.
HOWEVER AWKWARDLY HE FELT IT EVEN STANDING STILL.
HE HAD A HABIT OF ROCKING FORWARD AND RISING UP ON THE BALLS OF HIS FEET, TRYING TO MEET HIS GROWTH SPURT.
HALFWAY HE STOOD BESIDE ME ON MARYLAND ROAD IN THAT UNSTEADY BUT SELF ASSURED POSTURE RISING AND FALLING LIKE A WAVE.
HE WAS SOCIALLY EFFECTIVE THE SAME WAY HE WAS GOOD AT BASKETBALL THROUGH UNCOWED PERSISTENCE.
I OFTEN HEARD IN LATER YEARS THAT PEOPLE FOUND HIM INTIMIDATING.
BUT FOR ME IT WAS THE OPPOSITE.
DESPITE MY SHYNESS OR BECAUSE OF IT, MICHAEL'S SELF-CONFIDENCE PUT ME AT EASE.
PERHAPS BECAUSE I WAS CONSCIOUS OF THE AWKWARDNESS THAT HE OVERCAME OR SIMPLY REFUSED TO RECOGNIZE I FED OFF HIS BELIEF IN HIMSELF.
BESIDES BEING SHY IS NOT THE SAME AS BEING MODEST.
THE SAME EXPECTATIONS SHAPING HIS LIFE, WERE SHAPING MINE.
THE BELIEF THAT YOUR BRAIN IS YOUR ROCKET SHIP.
AND THAT SIMPLY AS A MATTER OF COURSE YOU ARE GOING TO CLIMB INSIDE AND BLAST OFF, PROPELLED BY SOME MYSTERIOUS PROCESS, NEVER SPECIFIED, ALMOST MYSTICAL, AND YET ENTIRELY REAL.
WE WOULD OUTSOURCE THE SHADOW OF ORDINARY EXISTENCE AND THINK OUR WAY INTO STRATOSPHERIC SUCCESS.
AND THAT'S WHERE, AND THE FIRST HOUSE, I I SHOULD SAY THAT THIS IDEA OF BEING INTELLIGENT OR BEING SMART, LOOMED LARGE AND LOOMED LARGE IN THE UNDERSTANDING OF MENTAL ILLNESS IN WAYS THAT ARE VERY COMPLICATED AND ACTUALLY QUITE PAINFUL TO CONTEMPLATE AS IF SOMEHOW IT WOULD, UM, BEING SMART WOULD SET YOU APART AND SAVE YOU FROM ORDINARY LIFE.
IT WAS THE HEIGHT OF THE MERITOCRACY.
BUT THAT HAD BEEN TURNED INTO SOMETHING ALMOST METAPHYSICAL IN A WAY.
AND IT PLAYED A ROLE IN THE RESPONSE THAT HIS LAW SCHOOL PROFESSORS, WHICH I'LL MENTION A LITTLE BIT, HAD TO HIM.
SO THE SECOND HOUSE, THE SECOND HOUSE IS PSYCHIATRY.
UM, MICHAEL AND I BOTH, AS I MENTIONED, WENT TO YALE AND THIS, THIS IS WHERE THAT HAPPENS.
HE WENT TO WORK FOR, HE WAS RECRUITED TO WORK FOR BAIN.
IT WAS JUST, THIS WAS THE EIGHTIES.
IT WAS THE AGE OF MANAGEMENT CONSULTING.
AND AS MICHAEL ALWAYS SAID, YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO KNOW ANYTHING, YOU JUST HAD TO TALK AS IF YOU DID.
AND HE WAS INCREDIBLY GOOD AT THAT.
AND HE WAS RECRUITED, BUT ALREADY AF IT WAS GONNA BE A 10 YEAR PLAN.
HE WAS GONNA MAKE A TON OF MONEY AND THEN HE WAS GONNA RETIRE AND WRITE.
I DID NOT HAVE A 10 YEAR PLAN.
I WENT TO GRADUATE SCHOOL IN ENGLISH LITERATURE AND THEN I JUST KIND OF SLIPPED AWAY,
UM, BUT IN THE COURSE OF THAT TIME, MICHAEL'S PARANOIA BEGAN TO GROW.
AS I MENTIONED, HE CAME TO RIVER RUN.
HE FELT THERE WERE NAZIS IN ROCHELLE EVERYWHERE.
AND THAT WAS ALSO A REMARKABLE THING FOR ME AS WHEN I LATER LEARNED OF IT.
'CAUSE MY FATHER'S PARENTS HAD BEEN KILLED BY NAZIS.
AND THERE WAS A WAY IN WHICH, YOU KNOW, IN MY HOUSE, I WAS PERFECTLY ORDINARY THING TO FEEL.
WHEREAS HE HAD, I ALWAYS ENVIED THE KIND OF AMERICAN STURDINESS OF HIS FAMILY OR THE IMMIGRANT, UM, BRAVADO.
YOU KNOW, HIS FATHER WAS A, GREW UP IN SHEEPSHEAD BAY AND ALWAYS WORE A LEATHER JACKET.
HIS FATHER WAS ALSO A COLLEGE PROFESSOR LIKE MINE.
BUT MY DAD ALWAYS WORE TWEED COATS FROM BROOKS BROTHERS AND HIS FATHER WORE A LEATHER JACKET.
AND WHEN HE, WHEN HE TALKED TO MY FATHER, MY FATHER ALWAYS BACKED UP A LITTLE BIT.
AND HIS FATHER ALWAYS ADVANCED.
UM, HIS FATHER TAUGHT ECONOMICS.
THIS IS THE HOUSE OF PSYCHIATRY.
AS I SAID, THERE WAS THIS GRAND MANSION THAT AMAZINGLY ENOUGH, BECAUSE I MENTIONED HOW ALL THE HOUSES ARE CONNECTED, WAS BUILT BY CECIL B DE MILL, AS IF IT WAS ALREADY A DREAM PALACE.
UH, BECAUSE THE MOVIE INDUSTRY USED TO BE CENTERED IN, UH, WESTCHESTER.
[00:30:01]
THIS GRANT HOUSE.MICHAEL CALLED IT THE GATSBY HOUSE.
AND, UM, HE LIVED IN THE ATTIC AND WAS WRITING STORIES AFTER HE QUIT BAIN, WHICH HE DID AFTER ONE YEAR, WHICH AGAIN, I THOUGHT WAS ACTUALLY LIVING THE DREAM THAT WE HAD PLANNED FOR OURSELVES.
I DIDN'T REALIZE THAT STAYING UP ALL NIGHT IN THIS ATTIC STARING OUT THE WINDOW WAS ACTUALLY A DISASTROUS THING FOR HIM TO BE DOING.
UM, THE ONLY THING I WANNA SAY ABOUT PSYCHIATRY, 'CAUSE I WON'T GET TO IT, IS JUST THAT I DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT, I DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT ANYTHING WHEN I STARTED WRITING IN THE SENSE THAT I DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT SEVERE MENTAL ILLNESS.
I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE NATURE OF PSYCHOSIS.
I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE NATURE OF PSYCHIATRY AND HOW PSYCHOANALYSIS HAD BECOME SO DOMINANT AT A CERTAIN POINT IN THIS COUNTRY THAT THE CHAIRMAN OF EVERY PSYCHIATRY DEPARTMENT WAS GOING TO BE A PSYCHOANALYST AS OPPOSED TO SOMEBODY WHO BELIEVED THAT SEVERE ILLNESSES WERE ORGANIC BRAIN DISEASES, LET'S SAY.
UM, AND WHAT WAS AMAZING TO ME WAS HOW FULLY WHAT FOR US HAD JUST BEEN THE FUNKY BACKGROUND OF OUR CHILDHOODS.
UH, WE MISSED THE SIXTIES, BUT WE'RE KIND OF CLOSE TO IT.
IT HAD TO DO WITH THE MUSIC WE LISTENED TO.
ALL OF THESE THINGS WERE BOUND UP WITH CHANGES THAT ACTUALLY CHANGED THE LAWS CHANGED, POLICIES CHANGED THE WAY PEOPLE UNDERSTOOD WHAT IT MEANT TO BE SANE OR INSANE SICK OR WELL.
UM, AND BY WAY OF EXAMPLE, IN 1954, THE FIRST ANTI-PSYCHOTIC MEDICATION WAS DISCOVERED OR PATENTED, SOMETHING THAT SUPPRESSED HALLUCINATIONS AND DELUSIONS.
IT WAS THE SAME YEAR THAT LSD WAS ALSO SENT TO PSYCHIATRISTS TO EXPERIMENT WITH, TO SEE WHAT IT MIGHT DO.
AND SO BASICALLY THEY HAD A DRUG IN ONE HAND THAT INDUCED HALLUCINATIONS AND A DRUG IN THE OTHER THAT SUPPRESSED THEM.
AND THE CULTURE SPOKE, ESSENTIALLY TOOK ABOUT 10 YEARS, BUT THEN IT DECIDED THAT HALLUCINATIONS WERE HIGHER, A FORM OF HIGHER CONSCIOUSNESS WERE A FORM OF MIND EXPANSION.
AND THAT THE PEOPLE WHO NATURALLY EXPERIENCED SUCH THINGS WERE ALMOST LIKE PROPHETS OR PRIESTS.
SO WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU, UM, ELEVATE OR EVEN USE A DRUG THAT SUPPRESSED PEOPLE'S MIND? EXPANSION? AND YOU MIGHT MAKE PEOPLE WHO WERE NATURALLY HALLUCINATING ALMOST TOUCHSTONES OF HIGHER ORDER OR INSIGHT.
AND THERE WAS A TRAGIC ROMANTICISM ABOUT PEOPLE WHO WERE, UM, WHO WERE MENTALLY ILL AT THE VERY MOMENT WHEN THERE WERE SO MANY SOCIAL CHANGES HAPPENING THAT WHAT THEY REALLY NEEDED WAS TO BE UNDERSTOOD AS THEY ACTUALLY WERE.
SO THE HOUSE OF PSYCHIATRY, THERE ARE TWO LITTLE, UH, I'M TALKING SO VERY MUCH, UH, UH, TWO EPIGRAPHS.
UM, ONE IS FROM ABRAHAM MASLOW, WHO IS LIKE THE KING OF PSYCHOLOGY IN THE FIFTIES.
AND THE QUOTE IS, I SOMETIMES THINK THAT THE WORLD WILL EITHER BE SAVED BY PSYCHOLOGISTS IN THE VERY BROADEST SENSE, OR IT WILL NOT BE SAVED AT ALL.
THAT'S TO GIVE JUST AN EXAMPLE OF THE MODESTY OF THE PROFESSION AT THAT TIME.
UM, AND THEN THERE'S A QUOTE FROM THE BAGAN SHRI RAJNI, WHO WAS A GURU AND ESSENTIALLY A CULT LEADER.
AND THE FATHER IN THE, OR THE HUSBAND IN THE HUSBAND WIFE PSYCHIATRY TEAM THAT OWNED THIS GRAND BUILDING WENT OFF TO BECOME A FOLLOWER OF THE BAGANS.
UM, HE WAS A VERY EMINENT FAMILY PSYCHIATRIST, BUT FOUND HIMSELF IN PUNE, INDIA.
UM, AND THIS QUOTE IS FROM THE BGAN, FROM THE BGAN, SRI RASHISH.
ANYONE WHO IS IN ANY WAY CONNECTED WITH GESTALT THERAPY, PSYCHOANALYSIS GROUP MOVEMENT IS DOING MY WORK.
THEY AWAKEN A THIRST, BUT ONLY I CAN SATISFY.
AND SO THIS IS JUST A LITTLE LIKE THE PRELUDE TO THE HOUSE OF PSYCHIATRY, UM, IS SET IN THIS GRAND HOUSE IN THE ATTIC ROOM THAT ACTUALLY MICHAEL MOVED INTO WHEN HE, BECAUSE THE FATHER MOVED OUT TO GO TO INDIA AT THE SOUTH END OF NEW ROCHELLE, ON THE LARGEST DEEDED BEACH IN WESTCHESTER COUNTY, A GRAND HOUSE WITH A HIGH TURRET, LOOKED OUT OVER LONG ISLAND SOUND, A SCATTERING OF SAILBOATS AND A DISTANT GLIMPSE OF CONNECTICUT ON THE TOP FLOOR OF THE TURRET.
IN THE YEAR OF OUR BICENTENNIAL, A SHIRTLESS MAN, BAREFOOT AND BARE HEAD AND BEAD AND BEARDED COULD SOMETIMES BE FOUND.
JUMPING UP AND DOWN BEHIND HIM WERE FLOOR TO CEILING BOOKSHELVES, HOLDING THREE GENERATIONS OF MEDICAL TEXTS, HIS GRANDFATHER'S, HIS FATHER'S, AND HIS OWN.
HIS WIFE'S MEDICAL BOOKS WERE THERE TOO, ALONG WITH HER MOTHER'S MEDICAL BOOKS, HER FATHER'S LAW BOOKS, AND A HEALTHY SUPPLY OF WESTERN LITERATURE, HISTORY, PHILOSOPHY, SCIENCE, AND PSYCHOLOGY.
THE JUMPING MAN WHO WAS A PSYCHIATRIST
[00:35:01]
HAD TURNED HIS BACK ON ALL THIS.HE FACED THE LARGE CURVED WINDOWS THAT LOOKED OUT OVER THE DARK WATER AND BRIGHT SKY AROUND HIS NECK.
A SMALL FRAMED PICTURE OF A BEARDED MAN WITH ENORMOUS LAUGHING EYES HUNG FROM A NECKLACE OF 108 WOODEN BEADS.
THE MAAH JUMPED WHEN HE JUMPED THE MANSION ON WILD CLIFF ROADS STOOD AT THE END OF A WINDING 300 FOOT DRIVEWAY.
IT MIGHT HAVE DRIFTED WEST FROM THE MORE GLAMOROUS PARTS OF THE NORTH FORK OF LONG ISLAND, OR TORN ITSELF LOOSE FROM THE PAGES OF AN F SCOTT FITZGERALD NOVEL.
MICHAEL CALLED IT THE GATSBY HOUSE, AND CLAIMED WHEN HE LIVED THERE IN THE FATEFUL YEAR IN 1986, THAT HE COULD SEE A GREEN LIGHT GLINTING FAR OUT ON THE WATER AS HE SAT UP LATE WRITING STORIES AND STARING INTO THE NIGHT.
HE WANTED TO BE FITZGERALD AND GATSBY, BOTH THE DREAMER AND THE DREAM.
DIDN'T WE ALL? THE HOUSE WAS ITSELF A VISION OF INTEGRATED ELEMENTS LIKE THE HOTEL AND TENDER IS THE NIGHT WHERE THE DASHING PSYCHIATRIST, DICK DIVER, AND HIS BEAUTIFUL MENTALLY ILL WIFE NICOLE, MODELED ON FITZGERALD'S OWN MENTALLY ILL WIFE.
ZELDA LIVE AT THE START OF THE NOVEL, THE HOTEL, AND ITS BRIGHT, UH, TAN PRAYER RUG OF A BEACH WERE ONE LINE FROM, I THINK IT'S THE FIRST LINE FROM TENDERS, THE NINE, WHEN MICHAEL AND I WERE GROWING UP, TWO PSYCHIATRISTS OWNED THE HOUSE ON WILD CLIFF ROAD, ANDREW AND JANE FERBER, WHO WERE AS GLAMOROUS IN THEIR WAY AS DICK AND NICOLE DIVER.
EVEN IF THEY SPENT THEIR TIME WITH THE DESTITUTE MENTALLY ILL OF DOWNTOWN NEW ROCHELLE, THEY AND THEIR FRIENDS HAD ANSWERED.
PRESIDENT KENNEDY'S CALL TO REPLACE THE COLD MERCY OF MENTAL HOSPITALS WITH THE OPEN WARMTH OF COMMUNITY CONCERN AND CAPABILITY.
THEY DEVOTED THEMSELVES TO A NEW KIND OF PSYCHIATRY THAT TOOK PLACE OUTSIDE OF INSTITUTIONS AND MADE THE MIND ITSELF A NEW FRONTIER.
THE STORIES MICHAEL TOLD ME ABOUT THE HOUSE HAD ITS, UM, AND ITS INHABITANTS HAD A SHIMMERING DREAMLIKE QUALITY.
THE HOUSE ITSELF HAD ONCE BELONGED TO DW GRIFFITH IN THE EARLY YEARS OF THE 20TH CENTURY, WHEN WESTCHESTER WAS A HUB OF THE MOVIE INDUSTRY.
GRIFFITH, WHOSE RACIST MASTERPIECE, BIRTH OF A NATION WAS SCREENED AT THE WHITE HOUSE BY A RACIST PRESIDENT, BUILT HIS MOVIE STUDIO IN NEARBY MAAC ON A SPIT OF LAND CALLED SATAN'S TOE JUTTING INTO LONG ISLAND SOUND.
THERE HE RECREATED 18TH CENTURY PARIS WITH 200 LOCAL EXTRAS WERE ORPHANS OF THE STORM, STARRING LILLIAN AND DOROTHY GIS, WHO LIVED IN A SPANISH STYLE HOUSE WITH RED RIDGE TILES.
THAT BECAME THE HUGA NOT YACHT CLUB.
AFTER THE ORIGINAL YACHT CLUB BURNED DOWN, BURNED TO THE GROUND, AS SO MANY THINGS DID IN THE 1960S, INCLUDING THE HIGH SCHOOL INTO ROCHELLE.
BUT THE MANSION ON WILD CLIFF THAT WOULD PROVE SO CENTRAL TO MICHAEL'S LIFE STOOD AS IT HAD ON ITS PRIVATE BEACH, STILL IN ITS WAY A DREAM FACTORY.
INSTEAD OF CHARLIE CHAPLIN, MARY PICKFORD, RUDOLPH VALENTINO, AND THE GISH SISTERS, THE FERBER HOSTED COMMUNITY PSYCHIATRISTS, FREUDIAN ANALYSTS, TV PRODUCERS, SELF-ACTUALIZING HUG THERAPISTS, THE NOBEL PRIZE WINNING QUANTUM PHYSICIST, AND EVEN A FEW BLACK PANTHERS STICKING IT TO THE GHOST OF DW GRIFFITH.
UP IN THE TURRET, A PIONEERING FAMILY PSYCHIATRIST, BRILLIANT AND CHARISMATIC, JUMPED AND CHANTED.
HE HAD FINALLY AWAKENED TO THE TRUTH OF A PASSAGE HE OFTEN SHARED WITH HIS PATIENTS, WRITTEN BY RD LANG, THE SCOTTISH PSYCHIATRIST WHO SAW SCHIZOPHRENIA AS A FORM OF RESISTANCE TO A MAD WORLD.
ANY ATTEMPT TO WAKE UP BEFORE OUR TIME LANG EXPLAINED, IS HEAVILY PUNISHED, ESPECIALLY BY THOSE WHO LOVE US MOST, BECAUSE THEY BLESS THEM, ARE ASLEEP.
THEY THINK ANYONE WHO WAKES UP OR WHO STILL ASLEEP, REALIZING THAT WHAT IS TAKEN TO BE REAL IS A DREAM IS GOING CRAZY.
THE FIRST TIME HE SAW B ONE, DR.
FERBER FELT HE HAD KNOWN HIM FOREVER.
HE CRAWLED ACROSS THE FLOOR AND TOUCHED HIS FOOT.
A TRADITIONAL GESTURE OF RESPECT.
BODHI CHEETAH, THE B ONE SAID, CALLING HIS SEN BY HIS NEW NAME.
THEN HE REACHED DOWN AND TOUCHED THE PLACE OF THE THIRD EYE.
ANDY BODHI CHEETAH SAW INSIDE HIMSELF THREE EXPLOSIONS OF LIGHT.
HE REALIZED THAT ALL HE THOUGHT HE KNEW OF LOVE BEFORE HAD BEEN ONLY A THIMBLEFUL IN THE OCEAN OF THIS MAN'S LOVE.
IT WASN'T EASY TO EXPLAIN WHAT HAD HAPPENED OR WHAT HE HAD TO DO.
THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO SEEMED TO RECOGNIZE IT ONCE THAT HE HAD BEEN TRANSFORMED WERE THE PEOPLE WITH SCHIZOPHRENIA AT THE HUGUENOT CENTER, WHICH HE AFFECTIONATELY CALLED THE HUGA NUT CENTER.
AND HE FOUND HIMSELF SPENDING MOST OF HIS TIME WITH PATIENTS AS HE PREPARED TO RETURN TO THE MAN IN THE PICTURE HANGING FROM HIS NECK HIMSELF, A GREAT HEALER.
THE GURU HAD GIVEN ANDY FERBER A NEW NAME, WISDOM
[00:40:01]
BEYOND THE MEDICAL BOOKS BEHIND HIM AND LOVE SURPASSING ANYTHING HE'D FOUND IN HIS FAMILY.HE LOOKED OUT AT THE WATER THAT ROSE AND FELL AS HE LEAPT ON A CLEAR DAY, YOU COULD SEE PUNA INDIA.
WHAT'S EXTRAORDINARY TO ME IS THIS MAN THEN WENT OFF ON HIS ADVENTURE.
HE STILL ACTUALLY PRACTICES PSYCHIATRY.
HE'S COME BACK, IT'S REALLY QUITE AMAZING, AND HE'S IN FABULOUS SHAPE.
I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW ACTUALLY WHAT THAT JUMPING REALLY WAS, BUT NOT THE POINT.
THE POINT IS THAT MICHAEL THEN MOVED INTO THAT SPACE AND KIND OF INHABITED HIS PLACE.
UM, AND I MENTIONED IN THE READING THAT MICHAEL CLAIMED HE COULD SEE A GREEN LIGHT OUT THE WINDOW LIKE GATSBY.
WHEN I TALKED TO THE DAUGHTER OF THE HOUSE, UM, A WOMAN WHO REALLY MADE IT POSSIBLE FOR ME TO WRITE THIS BOOK WHO'S A LITTLE YOUNGER THAN ME AND MICHAEL, SHE SAID, OH NO, YOU COULD SEE A GREEN LIGHT
AND I ASSUMED AT SOME THINGS THAT WERE NOT IN ANY WAY HALLUCINATIONS, I ASSUMED WERE, AND SOME THINGS THAT WERE, I SIMPLY TOOK TO BE NATURAL.
AND THAT WAS ALSO PART OF THE MYSTERIOUS NATURE OF THE MIND AND THE WAY IN WHICH A, WE PRESUME EITHER SANITY OR IT'S OPPOSITE, AND B UM, IT ISN'T.
AND THIS IS SOMETHING I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND AT ALL, AS IF SOMEBODY WHO HAS A SEVERE ILLNESS OR WHO IS PSYCHOTIC IS ENTIRELY PSYCHOTIC IN EVERY WAY, BUT CAN ACTUALLY BE QUITE RATIONAL AS MICHAEL WAS.
IN FACT, EVEN WHEN HE KILLED SOMEONE, HE, HE MISPERCEIVED HER.
HE THOUGHT HE WAS CONVINCED THAT SHE WAS A SPACE ALIEN WHO WAS GOING TO KILL HIM.
BUT THE RATIONAL THING TO DO WOULD BE TO FLEE OR TO DEFEND HIMSELF.
UM, ALL THE MORE REASON NOT TO ALLOW YOURSELF THE LUXURY OF IMAGINING THAT SUCH A STATE IS, UM, SOMEHOW FULL OF, YOU KNOW, INSIGHT, INSIGHTS THAT WE CAN THEN HARNESS.
SO, UM, THE, I MENTIONED THE DAUGHTER LIZ, UM, WHO IS, UH, PARENTS WHO HAD GROWN UP WITH ALL OF THIS.
AND IT WAS REALLY, WHEN I SPOKE TO HER, I DIDN'T KNOW HER, ALTHOUGH I KNEW WHO SHE WAS.
SHE SAID, YOU NEED TO TELL THIS STORY, BECAUSE SHE HAD WITNESSED ALL THAT HAD UNFOLDED.
UM, AND SHE UNDERSTOOD THAT THE NIGHT BEFORE MICHAEL KILLED CAREY, SHE CALLED HER MOTHER, AND MICHAEL SAID TO HER, AND THE HER MOTHER SAID TO HER, YOU KNOW, MICHAEL THINKS CAREY IS A SPACE ALIEN.
AND SHE SAID TO HER MOTHER, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? AND THE MOTHER SAID, WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING.
AND THAT SHOCKING FACT, WHICH I HEAR ALL THE TIME, BY THE WAY, TRAGICALLY FROM PARENTS OR CAREGIVERS OR CHILDREN OF, OR SIBLINGS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE SUFFERING A PSYCHOTIC EPISODE AND CALL THE POLICE OR CALL THE HOSPITAL AND ARE TOLD WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING, IS ONE OF THOSE HAUNTING REFRAINS.
AND SO PART OF, ONE OF THE THINGS I WAS TRYING TO UNDERSTAND IS HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE? HOW, HOW DID WE GET TO THIS POINT? AND IN A SENSE, THE BOOK TRIES TO FRAME THAT AND ANSWER IT TO, UH, I SEE I'VE, AS I SAY, TALKED FOR SO LONG THAT I'M JUST GOING TO, UM, I'M GOING TO READ VERY LITTLE FROM THE HOUSE OF LAW.
UH, BUT TO SAY THAT MICHAEL, UH, WAS, HAD A PSYCHOTIC BREAK, EVENTUALLY I WENT TO VISIT HIM.
HE WAS IN A LOCKED WARD AT A COLUMBIA PRESBYTERIAN WHERE HE SPENT EIGHT OR NINE MONTHS.
AND THERE TOO, I THOUGHT, BECAUSE HE FELT IT WAS LIKE PRISON, HOW TERRIBLE THAT WAS.
I REALIZE NOW HOW LUCKY HE WAS THAT HE GOT THAT LONG A SPELL UNDER CARE OF PSYCHIATRISTS WHO WERE ABLE TO FIND AT LEAST A GOOD ENOUGH COMBINATION OF MEDICATIONS THAT STABILIZED HIM.
HE THEN WENT TO A HALFWAY HOUSE, BUT HE HAD ALREADY APPLIED TO LAW SCHOOLS, GOTTEN INTO ALL OF THEM, AS HE SAID, TOLD HIS BROTHER TO REJECT THEM ALL EXCEPT FOR YALE, WHICH HE DEFERRED.
AND UM, AND THEN WHEN HE WAS AT THE HALFWAY HOUSE, THEY HAD RECOMMENDED THAT HE BEGIN BY DOING SLOW THINGS AS, AS FORMS OF WORK, MAYBE WORK AT MACY'S, MAYBE WORK IN A SUPERMARKET.
AND HIS FATHER HAD TAKEN HIM TO THE LARGEST MACY'S IN THE WORLD, WHICH IS LIKE STILL SAYS THE LARGEST DEPARTMENT STORE IN THE WORLD, THE ONE IN MANHATTAN.
AND THEY'D GONE TO THE RETURNS DESK AND IT WAS CHAOS AS FAR AS MICHAEL'S FATHER THOUGHT.
AND, AND HE BASICALLY DECIDED THAT THIS IS AS STRESSFUL AND AS AN ENVIRONMENT AS I CAN IMAGINE.
AND SINCE MY SON'S ALREADY GOTTEN INTO YALE LAW SCHOOL, WHY NOT LET HIM GO? AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS MICAH WOULD ALWAYS SAY, WHY WOULD I GO TO, WHY WOULD I WORK AT MACY'S WHEN I COULD BECOME A YALE LAWYER? UM, AND I I, IT MADE PERFECT SENSE TO ME IN RETROSPECT, OF COURSE, IN ADDITION TO THE FACT THAT IT WASN'T, THAT'S NOT THE PROPER CHOICE.
IT WASN'T A CHOICE, IT WAS ABOUT BEGINNING SOMEWHERE.
IT ALSO REFLECTED SOMETHING ABOUT HOW WE LOOKED AT THE WORLD THAT TO WORK AT, TO WORK AT MACY'S IS TO BE CAST INTO OUTER DARKNESS AND TO GO TO YALE LAW SCHOOL IS TO BE GATHERED INTO SOME HIGHER REALM.
[00:45:01]
EXTREMELY DIFFICULT FOR THE PEOPLE WHO WERE CLOSEST TO HIM, WHO FELT THAT THEY WERE HONORING HIS AUTONOMY, BUT REALLY ENCOURAGING HIS ILLNESS IN CERTAIN WAYS TO GIVE HIM THE CARE HE NEEDED.UM, I'LL JUST READ THE TWO EPIGRAPHS HERE.
ONE IS FROM WILLIAM O. DOUGLAS, WHO WAS A SUPREME COURT JUSTICE, WHO WAS VERY INTERESTED IN PSYCHOANALYSIS.
WE WANTED PSYCHIATRY AS WELL AS THE CRIMINAL CODE.
THE SECOND QUOTE IS FROM A LAWYER, UH, FOR PATIENTS AT PILGRIM STATE HOSPITAL.
QUOTES FROM THE NEW YORK TIMES 1988.
THE QUESTION OF THE NEED FOR HOSPITALIZATION IS A LEGAL QUESTION, NOT A MEDICAL QUESTION.
AND THAT'S WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT ABOUT THE MA THE MARRIAGE OF LAW AND PSYCHIATRY.
UM, I'M JUST GONNA THIS BECAUSE IT ADDRESSES THIS SENSE OF, OF BRAINS
I'M JUST GONNA READ THE LITTLE THREE PARAGRAPH INTRODUCTION TO THE HOUSE OF, UH, LAW.
WHEN I WAS YOUNG, I HAD A BOOK CALLED LEGENDS OF KING DAVID.
IN THE LAST STORY, THE KING HAS GROWN OLD AND GOD SENDS THE ANGEL OF DEATH TO RECEIVE HIS SOUL.
DAVID IS PLAYING HIS HARP SO SWEETLY THAT THE ANGEL OF DEATH, INSTEAD OF COLLECTING HIS SOUL, STOPS TO LISTEN.
THE KING UNDERSTANDS PERFECTLY WELL WHAT IS HAPPENING AND WALKS THROUGH HIS PALACE PLAYING HIS BEAUTIFUL MELODIES WITHOUT PAUSE, UNTIL GOD TAKING PITY ON HIS ANGEL BREAKS A PALACE STEP UNDER DAVID'S FOOT, THE KING STUMBLES THE MUSIC STOPS IN THE ANGEL OF DEATH, CARRIES OFF HIS SOUL.
AT LAST, NOBODY TOLD US THAT BEING SMART WOULD MAKE US SANE, SUCCESSFUL, AND MAYBE IMMORTAL.
JUST AS IT WENT WITHOUT SAYING THAT MICHAEL PLUCKING THE STRINGS OF HIS INTELLIGENCE WOULD KEEP THE ANGEL OF MADNESS FROM CARRYING HIM AWAY.
IT WENT WITHOUT SAYING THOUGH MICHAEL SAID IT ANYWAY.
I MAY BE CRAZY, BUT I'M NOT STUPID, WHICH ACTUALLY MEANT HE WAS NEITHER.
IT ALSO WENT WITHOUT SAYING THAT MACY'S WOULD DESTROY HIM AND YALE LAW SCHOOL WOULD SET HIM FREE.
MY PARENTS AND MICHAEL'S PARENTS BELIEVED IT.
SO DID G***O CALABRESI AND THE PROFESSORS WHO BECAME MICHAEL'S MENTORS.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT ASTONISHED ME WHEN I SPOKE TO THE YALE LAW PROFESSORS WAS THAT THEY ALL SAID TO ME HOW BRILLIANT MICHAEL WAS.
THEY ALSO TOLD ME HE COULDN'T DO THE WORK.
ONE OF HIS PROFESSORS SAID TO ME, I NEVER THOUGHT HE WOULD BE A YALE LAWYER.
I THOUGHT THAT HE WOULD BE SOMEONE WHO COULD BE AN ADVOCATE FOR PEOPLE WITH SCHIZOPHRENIA WHO HAD BEEN TO YALE LAW SCHOOL.
AND BECAUSE MICHAEL USED TO SAY TO ME, WHY WOULD I WORK AT MACY'S WHEN I CAN BE A YALE LAWYER? BEING A YALE LAWYER WAS THE WHOLE POINT.
THEY DID NOT SHARE WITH HIM WHAT FOR THEM WAS AN ACT OF KIND ACCOMMODATION.
BUT WHAT FOR HIM ONLY WIDENED THE SPACE BETWEEN HI, HIS ACTUAL SITUATION AND, UM, WHAT HE IMAGINED FOR HIMSELF.
AND FOR SOMEBODY WHO HAD DIFFICULTY RECOGNIZING REALITY, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE HE WAS NEVER QUITE PROPERLY MEDICATED AND OFTEN STOPPED TAKING HIS MEDICATION.
THAT WAS UM, AN, THE SUBTITLE OF THE BOOK IS THE STORY OF FRIENDSHIP MADNESS AND THE TRAGEDY OF GOOD INTENTIONS.
AND THERE WAS ALL AN ELEMENT OF THAT.
WHAT WAS INTERESTING ALSO, AS I MENTIONED, IS THAT HIS PROFESSORS HAD, SEVERAL OF THEM HAD CLERKED FOR THE JUDGES WHO HAD CHANGED THE LAWS.
THEY DID NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT SEVERE MENTAL ILLNESS AT THE TIME, BUT THEY SAW IT AS AN EXTENSION OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT THAT ANYBODY IN THERE SHOULD BE ALLOWED OUT, SHOULD BE LET OUT HERE AS IF IT WERE A FORM OF PRISON AND AN UNJUST ONE AT THAT.
AND BELIEVE ME, THERE WERE HORRIFIC EXCESSES.
AND, UM, THE STATE HOSPITALS HAD, WERE GROTESQUELY OVERCROWDED AND, UM, UNDERSTAFFED AND MANY PEOPLE DID NOT NEED TO BE THERE.
AND MEDICATION ALLOWED MANY PEOPLE TO GO HOME.
BUT THE IDEA THAT THAT WAS NOT HOW THEY APPROACHED IT, THEY APPROACHED IT AS A LEGAL MATTER THAT WOULD SIMPLY MAKE IT, IM, THEY WOULD THEY WANT, THEY WOULD DESTROY THE STATE HOSPITALS, BUT AND RELEASE EVERYONE AND THEN TO LOCK THE DOOR BEHIND THEM IN CASE THEY EVER WENT BACK, MAKE IT ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO HOSPITALIZE THEM.
SO, UM, BUT MICHAEL THRIVED FOR QUITE A TIME IN A SENSE, YALE LAW SCHOOL WAS A KIND OF ASYLUM FOR HIM.
HE WAS SURROUNDED BY HE, HE DIDN'T TELL, STUDENTS DIDN'T KNOW.
AND HE WAS SO ARTICULATE, UH, THAT ALTHOUGH HE SEEMED SOMEWHAT DIFFERENT IN HIS WAY, HE ALSO SPOKE SO WELL AND WITH THE KIND OF GRAVITAS THAT THEY ASSUMED HE HAD BEEN IN THE ARMY OR THAT HE HAD SOME MYSTERIOUS AFFLICTION.
AND THEY HELPED, THEY READ TO HIM AND THEY DID THINGS FOR HIM AND HIS PROFESSORS WERE WONDERFULLY ACCOMMODATING.
AND SO HE LIVED IT, IT REALLY WAS LIKE AN ASYLUM.
[00:50:01]
BEAUTIFUL SPACE THAT WAS SAFE INSIDE.THE PROBLEM IS THAT HE WAS NOT THERE FOR THAT REASON.
AND, UH, THINGS WERE EXPECTED OF HIM THAT HE COULDN'T DO.
AND THE ACCOMMODATION LED TO A LARGER SET OF MISPERCEPTIONS THAT THE WORLD UNWITTINGLY OR PARTICIPATED IN.
UM, AND SO I MENTIONED THAT THERE WAS THIS EXTRAORDINARY NEW YORK TIMES ARTICLE, UH, ABOUT A LAW STUDENT, ABOUT MICHAEL, THE BRILLIANT YALE LAW STUDENT AS HE WAS WHO COULD NOT GET HIRED.
AND THE FANTASTIC PHOTOGRAPH OF HIM LEANING AGAINST A COLUMN IN THE MURKY CHAMBERED, YOU KNOW, SPACE OF THE LAW SCHOOL IN THE, WITH THOSE GOTHIC ARCHES.
BUT THEN, UM, AND THAT LED TO ALL OF THESE WONDERFUL THINGS HAPPENING TO HIM THAT LED TO THE HOUSE OF DREAMS. BUT THEN, UH, THREE YEARS LATER, HE WAS ON THE COVER OF THE NEW YORK POST UNDER A GIANT WORD PSYCHO.
AND IN A SENSE, ALSO, IF I WERE TO DESCRIBE WHAT I WAS TRYING TO FATHOM, IT'S, IT'S HOW THE WORLD EITHER SEES THE BRILLIANT LAW STUDENT AND THE DEAN OF YALE, YALE LAW SCHOOL GIVES A QUOTE IN THE TIMES ARTICLE THAT HE HAD CONQUERED HIS ILLNESS, UM, AS IF IT WERE A MOUNTAIN YULE.
UM, AND, UH, THE, THE FALSE MISREPRESENTATION OF THAT WAS PAINFUL ONLY BECAUSE WE NEEDED TO KNOW WHAT IT MEANT TO STRUGGLE WITH THIS ILLNESS.
UM, SO THERE WAS THAT, BUT THEN THE OTHER WAY IN WHICH THE WORLD SEEMS TO RECOGNIZE PEOPLE WITH SEVERE MENTAL ILLNESS IS, IS PSYCHO.
AND WHAT'S EXTRAORDINARY IS THAT WHEN SOMEONE, UH, FRANK RICH ACTUALLY WHO WAS A THEATER CRITIC FOR MANY YEARS, UH, WHOSE STEPFATHER HAD SEVERE MENTAL ILLNESS AND WHO CRASHED THE CAR THAT KILLED HIS MOTHER, UM, WANTED THE FILM TO GET MADE WITH THE NEW ENDING THAT REFLECTED MICHAEL'S REALITY.
HE WROTE A PIECE IN THE TIMES ABOUT IT AND POINTED OUT THAT IMAGINE ENTERTAINMENT, RON HOWARD'S, UH, FILM COMPANY, WHICH WAS NOW GOING TO BE MAKING A BEAUTIFUL MIND, WAS ALSO GOING TO REMAKE PSYCHO.
AND IF I HAD MET MICHAEL ONLY THROUGH THE, UM, NEW YORK POST STORY, OF COURSE I WOULD NEVER HAVE UNDERSTOOD HIM, LET ALONE BEEN HIS FRIEND.
BUT THE SAME IS TRUE FOR THE OTHER REPRESENTATIONS OF HIM.
AND AGAIN, THAT'S WHY I WENT BACK TO CHILDHOOD AND I MENTIONED HOW A COMMON, HOW EXTRAORDINARY THE, UM, THE LAW PROFESSORS WERE.
SO I'M JUST, I'M JUST GONNA END THIS READING WITH A FEW PARAGRAPHS THAT, UM, THAT ADDRESS THAT QUOTE, UH, ONE OF THE LAW PROFESSORS OWEN FIS, WHO'S A BRILLIANT, UH, CONSTITUTIONAL LAW PROFESSOR AND EXTRAORDINARY IN HIS BOTH HIS KINDNESS TO MICHAEL AND HIS, UH, WILLINGNESS TO RECKON WITH THE NATURE OF HIS OWN, UM, DESIRE TO ACCOMMODATE HIM.
I KNOW THERE IS NO GOING BACK TO THE TIME BEFORE MICHAEL KILLED CAREY ANY MORE THAN IT IS POSSIBLE TO GO BACK TO THE VAST HOSPITALS THAT CEASED TO BE WORTHY OF THE CONCEPT OF ASYLUM THAT CREATED THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE.
JUST AS THERE IS NO GOING BACK TO THE UTOPIAN VISIONS OF THE PEOPLE WHO DESTROYED THEM, WHOSE FAITH IN THEIR OWN EXPERTISE AND DREAM OF COMMUNITY CARE, WITHOUT A PRACTICAL PLAN FOR LONG TERM HOSPITAL BEDS FOR THOSE WHO NEED THEM OR FOLLOW UP CARE FOR PEOPLE WHOSE REJECTION OF THEIR ILLNESS IS ONE OF ITS SYMPTOMS, FAIL TO FULFILL THEIR PROMISE TO THE PEOPLE WHOSE DESPERATE NEED HAD JUSTIFIED THE DEMOLITION.
I ALSO KNOW THAT THERE CAN BE NO GOING FORWARD WITHOUT A RECKONING, HOWEVER, PARTIAL AND IMPERFECT SO THAT THE RECKONING WILL ALSO NO DOUBT REQUIRE A RECKONING OF ITS OWN.
OWEN FIS IS PARTING ADMONITION.
IF HOLLYWOOD IS TO BLAME, WE ALL ARE.
IN OTHER WORDS, HE SAID TO ME, DON'T BLAME HOLLYWOOD.
THEY'RE IN THE BUSINESS OF MAKING IMAGINARY STORIES WITH HAPPY ENDINGS.
WHAT RIGHT DID YALE LAW SCHOOL HAVE TO GIVE THAT STORY TO THE TIMES? WHAT RIGHT DID YOU KNOW? I MEAN, HE, HE WENT DOWN THE LIST.
UM, OWEN FISS IS PARTING ADMONITION.
IF HOLLYWOOD IS TO BLAME, WE ALL ARE, WAS DELIVERED LIKE THE LINE AT THE END OF KING LEAR INSISTING THAT THE WEIGHT OF THESE SAD TIMES WE MUST OBEY, SPEAK WHAT WE FEEL, NOT WHAT WE OUGHT TO SAY.
IT SEEMED LIKE A GOOD STARTING ASSUMPTION AND I'LL END THERE TO HAVE AT LEAST ONE QUESTION.
I SAID I'D LET JOAN CALL ON PEOPLE, BUT YOU'RE RIGHT HERE AND YOU WERE LISTENING SO NICELY,
[00:55:15]
I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS IN THE SCOPE THAT YOU ABOUT.CAN YOU, I THINK ABOUT IT ALL THE TIME.
THE QUESTION IS IF I COULD DO ANYTHING TO REPAIR THE SYSTEM, WHAT WOULD I DO? UM, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT THE SYSTEM ITSELF CAN BE REPAIRED.
'CAUSE IT WASN'T A SINGLE SYSTEM AND IT WAS MANY SYSTEMS THAT WERE BROKEN.
UH, THAT'S NOT MEANT TO SOUND DESPAIRING.
THERE'S PLENTY OF REASON TO FEEL REALLY BAD, BUT I THINK MOST PEOPLE ARE PROBABLY FAMILIAR WITH THE NATURE OF THE, OF ALL THE WRECKAGE.
UH, THERE ARE SOME THINGS ONLY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT CAN DO.
FOR EXAMPLE, MEDICAID DOESN'T REIMBURSE STATES WHEN PEOPLE ARE IN LONG-TERM CARE PSYCHIATRIC HOSPITALS, WHICH IS AMAZING, LIKE THE MOST SEVERE ILLNESS.
IF YOU'RE SENT TO A PLACE DESIGNED FOR THE, TO CARE FOR PEOPLE WITH THAT ILLNESS, THE STATE, UH, DOESN'T GET REIMBURSED.
SO THE, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WILL HAVE TO CHANGE THAT.
STATES ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR HOW MANY HOSPITAL BEDS.
THERE SHOULD BE BEDS FOR PEOPLE WHO NEED THEM FOR AS LONG AS THEY NEED THEM, WHICH WILL NOT BE MOST PEOPLE BY THE WAY.
THERE SHOULD BE, IT SHOULD BE POSSIBLE TO TREAT PEOPLE FOR THEIR ILLNESS, NOT FOR THE WORST AND NOT EVEN LIKELIEST SYMPTOM OF THEIR ILLNESS, WHICH IS VIOLENCE.
AND WHAT UNFORTUNATELY HAPPENED IS THAT THE ONLY STANDARD FOR TREATMENT WAS IMMEDIATE HARM TO SELL FOR OTHERS.
IT'S THE HARDEST THING TO DISCUSS BECAUSE WE ARE JUSTIFIABLY AND CORRECTLY A SOCIETY THAT CARES A LOT ABOUT INDIVIDUAL AUTONOMY.
BUT IF SOMEONE HAS AS A SYMPTOM OF THEIR ILLNESS, AN INABILITY TO RECOGNIZE THEY ARE ILL AND AN INABILITY TO RECOGNIZE WHAT IS REAL AND WHAT IS NOT, THEN WHETHER THEY INTEND HARM OR NOT, THEY ARE LIKELY TO, UM, EITHER SUFFER HARM OR POTENTIALLY INFLICT IT ON THEMSELVES OR SOMEONE ELSE.
AND SO, UM, THAT, THAT HAS TO HAPPEN.
IT, PEOPLE OFTEN FEAR THAT, UM, AND I SAY THERE'S NO GOING BACK, PARTLY BECAUSE PEOPLE ALWAYS THINK WHAT YOU WANT THEREFORE TO SUGGEST IS THAT WE SHOULD HOSPITALIZE PEOPLE IN GRAND NUMBERS.
I MEAN, THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT THERE AREN'T BACKWARDS TO LEAVE PEOPLE LYING IN BECAUSE THERE AREN'T EVEN FRONT WARDS.
THE STATE HOSPITALS ARE MOSTLY GONE.
THAT UNFORTUNATELY WAS ONE OF THE TRAGEDIES THAT INSTEAD OF REFORMING SOMETHING THAT HAD BEEN BORN OUT OF A HUMANE, UM, AN IMPULSE, WHICH WAS PEOPLE IN THE 19TH CENTURY, LIKE DOROTHY DIX, WHO WENT TO EVERY GOVERNOR OF EVERY STATE AND SAID, YOU CANNOT LET PEOPLE DIE ON THE STREET.
AND IN SNAKE PITS, THOSE WERE REAL SNAKE PITS WHERE THEY BEAT PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY ASSUMED THEY WERE POSSESSED OR THEY LOCKED THEM IN BASEMENTS.
AND HER DOROTHY DIXIE'S FATHER HAD BEEN HOMELESS, PROBABLY MENTALLY ILL, CERTAINLY ALCOHOLIC.
AND SO SHE DID THIS EXTRAORDINARY THING.
SHE WAS A CHRISTIAN REFORMER AND IT WORKED.
THE REASON THESE OLD HOSPITALS, YOU SEE THEM NOW LIKE HAUNTED HOUSES OR YOU KNOW, SCOTTISH CASTLES, BUT THEY HAVE THESE VERY GRAND FACADES.
THEY'RE BUILT LIKE LIBRARIES OR OPERA HOUSES.
BECAUSE THE STATES TOOK, UNDERSTOOD THAT ANY STATE WORTHY OF ITS CITIZENS WOULD HAVE A PLACE THAT WOULD CARE FOR THEM EVEN BEFORE THERE WERE TREATMENTS.
SO THE IDEA OF ASYLUM MATTERED, BUT THOSE PLACES, INSTEAD OF BEING REFORMED, AND MANY OF THEM HAD SATELLITE HOSPITALS, SO IT WAS A MUCH BETTER COMMUNITY SYSTEM.
'CAUSE THEN THEY COULD GO BACK TO THE HOSPITAL.
THEY WERE REALLY UNDONE BECAUSE PEOPLE HAD ANOTHER KIND OF VISION, A VISION OF A FEDERAL SYSTEM THAT WOULD MAKE EVERYTHING UNIFORM BUT BE APPLIED AT THE LEVEL OF THE STREET.
THERE ARE LOTS OF, IT'S VERY EASY TO KEEP SAYING WHAT'S WRONG WITH IT ALL.
ONE OF THE THINGS I THINK IS NOT HARD TO FIX, IT WON'T MAKE ANYONE BETTER, BUT IT'S IMPORTANT IS, UM, NOT TO SPEAK OF MENTAL ILLNESS IN A VAST AND GENERIC WAY.
UH, I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND ANYTHING ABOUT THAT DISTINCTION.
1% OF THE POPULATION HAS SCHIZOPHRENIA.
A PERCENTAGE OF THAT PERCENTAGE WILL NOT TAKE MEDICATION OR NOT BE AMENABLE TO IT.
AND SO, BUT YOU CONSTANTLY READ ARTICLES WHERE IT SAYS HALF OF ALL AMERICANS WILL SUFFER FROM MENTAL ILLNESS OR DO SUFFER FROM MENTAL ILLNESS.
AND IT'S NOT TO BELITTLE THOSE, UM, THOSE, UH, EXAMPLES OF, YOU KNOW, THOSE REAL INSTANCES OF PSYCHOLOGICAL SUFFERING.
BUT WHEN YOU LOOK IN THE DSM, THE GUIDEBOOK FOR PSYCHIATRISTS, IT'S GOT EVERYTHING IN IT FROM ARACHNI
[01:00:01]
PHOBIA TO SCHIZOPHRENIA AND, YOU KNOW, BEING AFRAID OF SPIDERS.UM, AND, AND IT'S IN THERE SO THAT YOU CAN GET REIMBURSED SO SOMEBODY CAN TREAT YOU.
BUT SEVERE PSYCHIATRIC DISORDERS REQUIRE THE GOVERNMENT TO SPEND MORE MONEY ON FEWER PEOPLE, MANY OF WHOM ARE THE ONES WHO MOST NEED IT WILL NOT VOTE.
AND THAT'S JUST THE WAY IT IS.
AND SO SOME OF IT, YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE IF YOU USE THE WRONG LANGUAGE, YOU'VE DEFINED A PROBLEM AND YOU'RE SOLVING, YOU WILL NOT EVEN BE SOLVING THE PROBLEM THAT YOU HAVE.
SO IT'S, I THINK, EXTREMELY USEFUL TO CONTINUE TO FOCUS ON THE PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE WHO ARE SEVERELY ILL, WHO NEED THE MOST, AND WHO RECEIVE THE LEAST.
BECAUSE OFTEN THEY'RE THE PEOPLE WHO CANNOT ASK FOR IT.
AND YET, IF THEY'RE ADULTS, I CANNOT TELL YOU HOW MANY PARENTS OF ADULT CHILDREN I MEET WHO HAVE BEEN THROUGH EVERYTHING YOU MIGHT IMAGINE.
I WAS AFRAID WHEN I BEGAN READING FROM MY BOOK AND THAT, YOU KNOW, WHAT WOULD PEOPLE WHO HAD ACTUAL EXPERIENCE WITH SOMEONE WHO SUFFERED FROM THIS ILLNESS OR WHO HAD SUFFERED IT FROM THE, THE, WITH IT THEMSELVES, HOW WOULD THEY FEEL? BECAUSE I'M TELLING A STORY OF THE WORST THING THAT MIGHT HAPPEN, ACTUALLY HAPPENING TO MY AMAZEMENT.
THE UNDERSTANDING HOW EASILY IT MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED TO THEIR CHILDREN WHO THEY HAD LOOKED FOR IN THE STREETS OR IN JAILS OR BEGGED HOSPITAL, UH, YOU KNOW, BEG DOCTORS TO PLEASE HAVE A 72 HOUR HOLD.
UM, IT WAS THE OPPOSITE OF THE REACTION THAT I HAD.
I MET A WOMAN WHO WAS A, IN A STATE CONGRESS PERSON FROM, UH, CALIFORNIA.
SHE SAID SHE WOULD NEVER HAVE VOTED FOR ANY OF THE LEGISLATION SHE PROPOSES BECAUSE SHE WOULD ONLY HAVE PROPOSED IT BECAUSE SHE HAS A CHILD WITH SCHIZOPHRENIA.
AND, UM, AND SO FOR ME, IT'S LIKE THE, THE NUMBER ONE THING I USED TO SAY BEFORE I WAS ABLE TO EVEN TALK ABOUT POLICY WAS IT'S LIKE WHAT SOLDIER NITIN SAYS, DON'T LIE, DON'T THINK YOU'RE ACCOMMODATING SOMEBODY IF YOU CAN VERBALLY REARRANGE THE NATURE OF THEIR ILLNESS.
SO IT SOUNDS BETTER TO YOU BECAUSE THEN YOU WILL NOT HELP THEM AT ALL.
I, I, UH, THE GENTLEMAN BACK THERE, RAISE HIS HAND FIRST THEN YOU, AND THEN WE MAY BE OUT OF TIME.
DO, UM, PEOPLE WHO ARE DIAGNOSED A SMALLER PERCENTAGE, A SMALL PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE WITH SEVERE MENTAL ILLNESS EMIT A HIGHER PERCENT, A HIGH PERCENTAGE OF MURDERS.
THEY DO, BUT THAT'S NOT THE, THE A SIGNIFICANT ENOUGH RE THAT'S NOT THE REASON.
IT'S NOT LIKE, OH, THERE WON'T BE MURDERS.
UM, BUT IT IS THE, THE LARGER CATEGORY, I THINK REALLY HAS WHAT, WHAT I LIKE ABOUT A GUY NAMED AMAZING PSYCHIATRIST NAMED FULLER, TORI E FULLER, TO, HE'S WRITTEN MANY HISTORIES OF DEINSTITUTIONALIZATION.
HE FORESAW WHAT WAS GOING TO HA HE'S LIKE JEREMIAH, HE FORESAW WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.
HE HAD THAT TO LIVE THROUGH IT.
HIS SISTER HAD HAD SCHIZOPHRENIA AND HAD TRIED.
HE LATER TOLD ME AFTER SHE DIED, UH, TO KILL HIS MOTHER, UM, HE'S A PSYCHIATRIST.
UM, NOW HE'S QUITE ELDERLY AND NOT WELL, BUT A MONTH OF HIS TIME EVERY YEAR WORKING WITH MENTALLY ILL HOMELESS PEOPLE.
IN ADDITION TO WRITING ALL THE THINGS THAT ARE ABOUT ALL THE THINGS THAT ARE WRONG WITH THE SYSTEM.
HE WROTE A BOOK CALLED SURVIVING SCHIZOPHRENIA, WHICH IS LIKE IN ITS EIGHTH EDITION, ENORMOUSLY HELPFUL, UM, FOR FAMILIES, UH, POINTING OUT AMONG OTHER THINGS THAT 20% OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE A PSYCHOTIC BREAK ARE DIAGNOSED WITH SCHIZOPHRENIA.
'CAUSE THEY MEET ALL THE CRITERIA, WILL NEVER HAVE ANOTHER PSYCHOTIC BREAK.
AND SO IT'S NOT AS IF IT'S, YOU KNOW, A DEATH SENTENCE, BUT PRETENDING AWAY THE FACT THAT SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T KNOW WHAT'S REAL AND WHAT ISN'T IS DANGEROUS IN SOME FASHION, IS, IS A, IS A TERRIBLE MISTAKE.
IT SHOULDN'T BE THE REASON YOU HELP SOMEONE.
WHAT I ALWAYS SAY TO SOMEONE IS IF, LIKE, IF I PASS OUT ON THE STREET AND YOU SEE ME, YOU DON'T KNOW IF I HAVE LOW BLOOD SUGAR, IF I HAD A HEART ATTACK OR A STROKE, BUT I HOPE YOU'LL CALL THE AMBULANCE.
AND, UM, EVEN IF I'M NOT ABLE TO ARTICULATE MY NEEDS, IT, IT'S OBVIOUSLY TRICKIER WITH THE MIND.
BUT THIS WOMAN BEHIND YOU, I'M SORRY.
UM, I CAN'T NOW AND HE'S QUITE ILL, BUT I, YOU KNOW, I WOULD AGAIN IF I COULD.
BUT, UM, HIS LIFE IS, HE'S BEEN IN THIS THE SAME FACILITY FOR 27 YEARS NOW, I GUESS.
WHENEVER 90 I'M, YEAH, I THINK NOW IT'S 27 YEARS.
I, I DON'T IMAGINE HIM READING IT.
IT DOESN'T MEAN HE CAN'T, BUT HE NEVER ACKNOWLEDGES OR ACKNOWLEDGE THAT HE KILLED SOMEONE.
[01:05:01]
IN THAT SENSE THAT IT, IS IT NOT HIS EXPERIENCE IN THAT WAY.AND THAT'S PART OF THE, THAT, THAT, THAT'S WHAT MAKES IT REALER.
I, I ALWAYS WISH I COULD SAY TO PEOPLE, YES, HE'S OUT NOW AND WE'RE FRIENDS AGAIN.
SO DID YOU WANT TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? YEAH, YEAH.
WELL, I KNOW A LOT MORE ABOUT THE ILLNESS.
UM, I ALSO DIDN'T KNOW THAT POT, FOR EXAMPLE.
FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE A GENETIC PREDISPOSITION TO THE ILLNESS AS HE DID, BY THE WAY, BECAUSE HE HAD IT, IT HAD A FAMILY HISTORY OF SCHIZOPHRENIA IS, IS A DISASTROUS THING TO DO, UH, TO ALLOW.
UM, AND, UM, PEOPLE DON'T REALLY LIKE TO TALK ABOUT IT, BUT EVERY FAMILY I EVER TALKED TO KNEW ALL ABOUT IT BECAUSE, AND IN FACT, THERE'S A GUY WHO WROTE A BOOK CALLED, YOU MUST TELL YOUR CHILDREN, IT'S ABOUT THE DANGERS OF MARIJUANA.
IT CAME OUT LIKE 10 YEARS AGO AND HAS BEEN BORN OUT BY A REMARKABLE NUMBER OF STUDIES.
HIS, WHEN I READ THE BOOK, IT BEGINS BY MENTIONING HIS WIFE, WHO WAS, WHO'S A PSYCHIATRIST, WHO WORKED AT THE FORENSIC HOSPITAL WHERE MICHAEL WAS, WHERE MICHAEL IS.
AND WHO SAID TO HIM, 'CAUSE HE DIDN'T BELIEVE THAT THERE WAS ANY CORRELATION, SHE SAID TO HIM, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF MY PATIENTS HAD DID SOMETHING DREADFUL JUST BY SMOKING POT.
NOT, DOESN'T MEAN POT IS GOING TO MAKE YOU SCHIZOPHRENIC, BY THE WAY.
IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO KNOW THAT.
UM, BUT THAT, YOU KNOW, THE DURING A TIME WHEN THE BRAIN IS VERY VULNERABLE, UM, IF, IF, AND WE DON'T NECESSARILY KNOW.
WHEN I, I THINK IT'S IN THE BOOK, I INTERVIEWED A, A BRAIN SCIENTIST WHO HAD, WAS FROM AUSTRALIA AND HER FATHER HAD LIKE 10 SIBLINGS AND THEY HAD ALL COMMITTED SUICIDE.
UM, AND I DIDN'T KNOW THAT, BUT I WAS JUST MAKING IDLE CHAT IN BETWEEN, LOOKING AT BRAINS, GETTING SCOOPED OUTTA BIG FREEZERS.
AND I ASKED HER IF SHE HAD ANY CHILDREN.
SHE SAID, YES, ONE OF THEM IS ALREADY OUT OF THE ZONE.
AND I SAID, WHAT IS THE ZONE? SHE'S LIKE, WELL, THE, SHE'S 25 NOW.
HER BRAIN IS SO, AND YOU COULD SEE THAT SHE HAD, BECAUSE SHE UNDERSTOOD THIS TREMENDOUS PREDISPOSING, UH, YOU KNOW, LOAD OF, UH, HERITABILITY, LET'S SAY.
SHE, UM, WAS EAGER TO SHEPHERD HER CHILDREN THROUGH THAT TIME.
BUT, YOU KNOW, IT, I DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE ILLNESS, AND SO I DIDN'T, I I WISH I HAD UNDERSTOOD MUCH MORE.
I ALSO DIDN'T KNOW CARRIE AT ALL.
AND, AND, AND I WANNA MENTION HER BECAUSE SHE ALSO LIVED IN HASTINGS AND BECAUSE, UM, SORRY.
AND, UM, IT WAS IMPORTANT TO ME, VERY IMPORTANT TO ME TO TALK TO THE PEOPLE WHO KNEW HER, WHO WORKED WITH HER, WHO GREW UP WITH HER, UH, BECAUSE SHE WAS, UM, JUST BECAUSE I DIDN'T LIVE ON HER STREET, IT WAS IMPORTANT FOR ME TO MAKE HER PRESENT AND NOT TO, UM, SORT OF WRITE HER OUT OF THE STORY.
AND THAT ALSO HAS AUTOMATICALLY CHANGED THE VERY NATURE OF WHAT I WAS, WHAT, WHAT I WAS TRYING TO DO.
AND SO IN THAT SENSE, UH, IT WASN'T JUST ME SORT OF RECKONING IN THAT, IN THAT WAY.
BUT, BUT BY THE WAY, WHEN YOU POINT NEXT DOOR AND YOU SAY SHE LIVED NEXT DOOR, ONE OF THE THINGS I CAME TO REALIZE IS THAT, YOU KNOW, MICHAEL WAS AN EXTRAORDINARY PERSON AND I LIVED NEXT DOOR TO HIM, BASICALLY.
BUT I KEPT DISCOVERING THAT IN A SENSE, EVERYBODY LIVED NEXT DOOR TO HIM JUST AS EVERYBODY LIVED NEXT DOOR TO CARRIE, WHO NEEDED MORE PEOPLE, INCLUDING THIS WORLD OF SEMI PSYCHIATRIST PSYCHIATRISTS WHO WERE WATCHING OVER MICHAEL AND WATCHING OVER HER TO BE MORE ATTUNED TO THE DANGERS AND TO THE CHANGES IN, IN HER LIFE AND HIS LIFE.
[01:10:21]
SURE, WELL, SO LET, I'M GONNA GO WHERE THEY PUT ME AND THEN I READ THE BOOK, COULDN'T STOP TALKING ABOUT IT.YOU, WHAT DO YOU RECOMMEND
I MEAN, THE WOMAN I GOT OVER THERE IS A BIRD WATCHING SOMEONE I SEE BIRD WATCHING BIRD.
THAT'S, I WROTE A NOVEL, UH, MAYBE THAT JOY COMES IN THE MORNING.
I KNOW FROM BURNING AND CENTRAL, I ALWAYS THOUGHT OF MYSELF HAVING LIKE THE WEIRDEST MOST, AND NOW IT TURNS OUT IT'S JUST, YOU KNOW.