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HI, I'M SPIKE BARKIN, AND THIS IS PART OF AN ONGOING SERIES CALLED CONVERSATIONS ON THE HUDSON.TODAY WE'RE GOING TO BE TALKING TO RUDY VRA.
SO YOU GREW UP IN HASTINGS? I DID.
WHEN, WHEN WAS THAT? I WAS BORN IN 1951 AT ST.
UH, AND, UH, AT THE TIME I THINK MY PARENTS WERE LIVING IN A BUILDING, I DON'T KNOW THE ADDRESS, THE BUILDING ALMOST CORRECTLY ACROSS FROM THE, UH, TRAIN STATION ON THE SECOND FLOOR.
I THINK THERE'S A POWER STATION NEXT TO IT OR SOMETHING.
AND THEN YOU STAYED IN HASTINGS AND WENT TO THE SCHOOLS HERE AND, OH, YEAH.
I MEAN, I, I GREW UP AS A CHILD.
WE, WE LIVED THERE THEN WE LIVED, UH, WE MOVED FROM THERE.
WE LIVED IN AN APARTMENT ABOVE, UH, ON WALBURN AVENUE.
UH, THERE WAS A SHOEMAKER, AND I FORGET HIS NAME, BUT WE LIVED IN AN APARTMENT ABOVE THE SHOEMAKER.
UM, I THINK I MIGHT HAVE BEEN THREE OR FOUR.
UH, MY OLDER SISTER, I HAD A SISTER, CAROLINE.
UH, SHE WAS TWO YEARS OLDER THAN ME.
UH, WE LEFT THAT APARTMENT BECAUSE THERE WAS A FIRE.
AND, UM, MY, MY MOTHER HAD LEFT US TO GO TO AL'S MARKET, WHICH WAS JUST TWO DOORS DOWN.
AND BY THE TIME SHE GOT TO THE MARKET, THE FIRE STARTED, MY SISTER TOOK ME DOWNSTAIRS, AND IT TURNED OUT THAT THE FIRE WAS IN A, FROM A HEATER, UH, IN THE CLOSET OF THE SHOEMAKER THAT HAD BEEN SMOLDERING ACCORDING TO THE FIRE DEPARTMENT FOR WEEKS, AND THEN DECIDED TO START.
SO I WAS LUCKY THERE, UH, THAT WIPED MY PARENTS OUT.
UM, SO MY MOTHER AND MY SISTER AND MY FATHER WENT TO LIVE WITH MY FATHER'S MOTHER, UH, AT INE STREET.
AND I WENT TO LIVE WITH MY MOTHER'S FATHER AND MOTHER, UH, ARCHIE AND HARRIET KRAM ON MAIN STREET, UH, WHERE THEIR SUPERMARKET IS NOW.
THAT WAS ONCE A FARM AND WHERE THE BANK IS, THAT WAS, UH, A STRING OF LITTLE COTTAGES CONNECTED.
AND MY GRANDPARENTS LIVED IN ONE OF THOSE, AND I LIVED THERE FOR A YEAR WITH THEM.
SO I GUESS THEY WERE MY PARENTS FOR THAT YEAR.
SO WHAT, WHAT WAS IT LIKE, UH, GROWING UP IN HASTINGS? UH, GROWING UP IN HASTINGS, UH, WAS WONDERFUL.
I MEAN, I, I, THIS IS A CONVERSATION I HAVE.
MY WIFE, MY WIFE AND I WENT TO HIGH SCHOOL TOGETHER.
SO WE, WE, UH, BOTH GREW UP HERE AND WE, WE'VE TALKED TO OTHER FRIENDS.
WE, WE STAY TOGETHER WITH FRIENDS.
WE ALL FEEL LIKE WE, WE GREW UP IN A REALLY GREAT PLACE.
I MEAN, I, I, I SAY I, I GREW UP IN A GARDEN, UM, UH, AS A CHILD, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS LITTLE LEAGUE, THERE WAS SPORTS, THERE WAS CYO BASKETBALL, THERE WAS CUB SCOUTS.
I DIDN'T LIKE THE BOY SCOUTS THAT MUCH,
UM, BUT THEN WHEN YOU GOT INTO HIGH SCHOOL, IT BECAME, UH, A LARGER RANGE.
AND, UH, IT WAS A BEAUTIFUL, IT IS A BEAUTIFUL TOWN.
IT WAS A LOT LESS POPULATED THAN IT IS NOW, FEWER CARS.
AND AS CHILDREN, UH, IT WAS A DIFFERENT TIME.
SO PARENTS WERE NOT, UM, I DON'T THINK THEY WERE WORRIED ABOUT LETTING THEIR KIDS LEAVE THE HOUSE.
SO WE BASICALLY, UH, IN HIGH SCHOOL, ALL OF US, UM, WE'D GO OUT AND WE'D WALK EVERYWHERE.
I MEAN, THERE WAS A GAME, I WAS THINKING ABOUT THIS ON, ON THE WAY HERE TO TALK TO YOU.
THERE WAS A GAME, AND I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT WE CALLED IT.
IT WAS SORT OF LIKE A HIDE AND SEEK GAME.
BUT WE WOULD, WE WOULD MEET AT REYNOLDS FIELD, AND WE WOULD PAIR UP, AND WE SOMEHOW DETERMINED THAT WHO WAS GONNA BE IT, AND THEY HAD TO GIVE US A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME TO GET AWAY, AND THEN THEY HAD TO FIND US.
AND WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, IT'S KIND OF NUTTY.
BUT IT WAS WONDERFUL BECAUSE WE ALL JUST WENT OFF THESE DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS.
WHOEVER YOU WERE PAIRED WITH AND YOU HAD AN EXPERIENCE OF AN EVENING VISITING WITH THOSE PEOPLE, UH, I DON'T THINK WE EVER GOT FOUND.
UH, WE ALL AGREED TO SHOW UP AT THE CENTER PLACE, WHICH WOULD BE IN FRONT OF THE VFW AT THE END OF THE GAME, WHICH WAS PROBABLY NOT TOO LATE BECAUSE OUR PARENTS DIDN'T LET US STAY OUT TOO LATE.
AND WE, WE DID THAT SEVERAL, SEVERAL TIMES.
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PRIVILEGED, HAVE GROWN UP HERE.WHAT WAS THE SCHOOL LIKE GOING, GOING TO SCHOOL? THE SCHOOL WAS GREAT.
UM, I WAS NOT THE GREATEST STUDENT, UH, UH, SOCIALLY IT WAS WONDERFUL.
UM, THERE WAS SOME VERY MEMORABLE TEACHERS.
I HAD A, UH, A HISTORY TEACHER NAMED TOM HOGAN, WHO, UM, WOULD KEEP AT THE BACK OF HIS CLASS, UH, SEVERAL BOOKS, NOT TEXTBOOKS, BUT SEVERAL BOOKS ON HISTORY.
AND THE CLASS, AT THE BEGINNING OF THE CLASS, HE WOULD TAKE EVERYBODY, GO GET A BOOK, I DON'T CARE WHICH ONE YOU GET, GET A BOOK.
AND WE WOULD, HE WOULD DO HIS CLASSES.
WE WOULD READ EACH, EVERYBODY READ THEIR BOOK, AND WE WOULD DO CLASSES THAT WAY.
HE'D TALK ABOUT HISTORY THAT WAY.
UH, HE WAS VERY LOVED BY MOST OF HIS STUDENTS.
AND WHEN I LATER WAS IN COLLEGE, I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY, UH, TO BRING HIM TO TEXAS TO WHERE I WAS GOING TO SCHOOL AS A, UM, GUEST VISITOR TO INTERACT WITH STUDENTS FOR A WEEK, WHICH HE DID.
AND WHAT DID YOU DO AFTER SCHOOL? UH, YOU MEAN WHEN WE WERE IN HIGH SCHOOL? AFTER SCHOOL? YEAH.
OH, WELL, WHAT I DID WAS, UM,
SO WHEN I TURNED 16, MY FATHER ON MY 16TH BIRTHDAY SAID TO ME, UH, CONGRATULATIONS.
I STARTED WORKING AT AL'S MARKET, WHICH IS ON, WELL, BURTON'S AND RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF TOWN.
AND AFTER, I THINK, I THINK I STARTED, I MUST HAVE STARTED THERE WHEN I WAS A SOPHOMORE, I'M NOT SURE.
UM, BUT AFTER A WHILE, UH, I BECAME THE DELIVERY BOY.
SO I GOT TO DELIVER PEOPLE'S GROCERIES, UM, AND BOUGHT MY OWN CLOTHES.
UH, SO THAT'S KIND OF WHAT I DID AFTER SCHOOL.
I WORKED, I MEAN, I, I, ESPECIALLY, MY, MY, UH, SENIOR YEAR, I WORKED A LOT.
DID YOU EVER, WILL YOU GO DOWN TO THE HUDSON AND SWIM IN THE HUDSON, OR NOT? I HAVE SWAM IN THE HUDSON.
UH, SO WHEN I WAS A CHILD, MY FATHER TOOK ME, UH, ON THE, I GUESS IT'D BE THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE PIERS.
UM, WE HAD WALKED TOWARDS YONKERS, AND THERE WAS A PLACE THAT HE CALLED THE HOME.
HE SAID, THIS IS THE HOME WHEN HE WAS A CHILD, HE AND HIS FRIENDS BROUGHT SAND IN AND JUST KEPT PUTTING IT, I GUESS, IN THIS PARTICULAR PLACE, TO SOFTEN UP THE BOTTOM OF THE RIVER.
AND ALTHOUGH IT WAS ALL MUDDY WHEN I WAS SWIMMING THERE, BUT WE, WE WOULD GO THERE WITH MY FATHER AND CRAB.
BUT I, I DID GO WHEN I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL AND SWAM THERE A COUPLE TIMES.
AND WERE THERE THERE PLACES THAT YOU HUNG OUT, LIKE THE CENTER RESTAURANT OR, OH, YEAH.
THERE WAS, THERE THE CENTER RESTAURANT ACTUALLY, I JUST HAD, BEFORE I CAME HERE, I JUST HAD LUNCH AT THE CENTER RESTAURANT WITH AN OLD FRIEND, UM, YEAH, THE CENTER RESTAURANT.
UH, I, I FIRST WENT TO THE CENTER RESTAURANT WHEN I WAS THIS VERY YOUNG CHILD.
MY FATHER, UH, KNEW THE OWNERS VERY WELL, AND THEY SPONSORED A BOWLING TEAM, WHICH MY FATHER WAS THE CAPTAIN OF.
AND, UM, I REMEMBER THE, UH, CENTER RESTAURANT WAS QUITE BEAUTIFUL.
IT HAD A 10 FOOT CEILING AT THE, THE RESTAURANT THAT'S THERE NOW IS A DROP CEILING.
IT WAS A VERY BEAUTIFUL OLD RESTAURANT.
AND, UM, MY DAD TOLD ME A STORY.
MY DAD WAS A TRUCK DRIVER, AND MY DAD WOULD KEEP VERY STRANGE HOURS.
AND SO HE TOLD ME THAT, UH, OFTEN HE WOULD BE IN THERE IN THE EARLY PART OF THE MORNING HAVING COFFEE, AND, UH, JACQUES AND HE WOULD SIT AT THE COUNTER AND HAVE COFFEE TOGETHER.
THEY, THEY'D BUMP INTO EACH OTHER ENOUGH TO START DOING THAT AND TALKING, WHICH I FOUND FASCINATING LATER ON.
AND I FOUND THAT FASCINATING WHEN I HEARD THAT.
AND DID YOU, WAS THERE A, UH, PIZZA PLACE THAT YOU HUNG OUT AT OR NOT? UH, YEAH.
THE, THE KING PIZZA WAS ON THE CORNER, AND THAT'S WHEN PIZZA WAS 15 CENTS A SLICE.
AND THE OTHER PLACE THAT WE REALLY HUNG OUT IN HIGH SCHOOL WAS THE CUP AND SAUCER, WHICH WAS DOWN AT THE MOVIE THEATER, WHICH THE MOVIE THEATER WAS, UH, SPECTACULAR.
I MEAN, I, I REMEMBER GOING TO THE MOVIE THERE AS A CHILD, YOU KNOW, AS A 14-YEAR-OLD MAYBE.
UM, AND THROUGHOUT HIGH SCHOOL AND SAW SOME GREAT MOVIES THERE.
THE CUP AND SAUCER WAS, UM, THERE WAS A, WHEN YOU WALKED IN, THERE WAS A COUNTER.
AND I IMAGINE PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, WORKERS IN THE TOWN, COMMUNITY PAPER MEMBERS IN THE TOWN WOULD GO AND HAVE LUNCH THERE.
BUT IN THE BACK, THERE WAS A, LIKE A BACK ROOM, AND THERE WERE BOOTHS AND THERE WERE
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PINBALL MACHINES.AND UH, UH, SAM CARUSO OWNED IT.
AND HE WAS A VERY NICE MAN WHO WAS WELCOMING TO THE KIDS.
AND SO HE, YOU COULD GO IN THERE AND YOU COULD SIT BACK THERE AND HAVE A COKE OR WHATEVER, AND HE WOULDN'T CHASE YOU OUT.
IT WOULD JUST, THERE, YOU KNOW, YOU'D PLAY SOME PINBALL AND VISIT AND, AND IT WAS SORT OF LIKE YOU WOULD GO TO THE CUP AND SAUCER TO SEE WHO WAS OUT AND WHAT WAS GOING ON.
DID, DID THEY HAVE, UH, SATURDAY MOVIES FOR KIDS AT THE MOVIE THEATER? I THINK, I THINK, YOU KNOW, I, I CAN'T REALLY REMEMBER.
I THINK THERE WERE SATURDAY MOVIES.
I THINK I WENT TO MOVIES IN THE AFTERNOON.
UH, AND, YOU KNOW, YOU WOULD, YOU, YOU WOULD SEE THE LINE LINE UP.
IT WOULD, IT WOULD LINE FROM THE MOVIE THEATER GOING NORTH, YOU KNOW, AND IT, IT, IT WOULD BE, IT'D BE LIKE MAYBE 40 KIDS IN LINE.
AND WERE THE, YOUR FRIENDS, WERE THEY ONLY FROM HASTINGS OR DID YOU HAVE FRIENDS IN DOBBS IN THE SURROUNDING COMMUNITIES, OR HOW, HOW WAS THAT? NO, MOST OF MY FRIENDS WERE, I MEAN, WE KNEW YOU KNEW SOME PEOPLE, BUT FROM OTHER TOWNS, BUT MOSTLY FROM WHAT I KNOW, WE ALL HUNG OUT.
THE LOCALS ALL HUNG OUT TOGETHER.
AND WHAT SPORTS DID YOU PARTAKE IN? UH, I WAS A CHILD.
I PLAYED LITTLE LEAGUE, AND THEN, UH, I PLAYED CYO AS A CHILD BASKETBALL.
AND THEN IN HIGH SCHOOL, I, UM, NEVER MADE ANY OF THE TEAMS. SO I BECAME MORE OF A STA STATISTICIAN.
I TOOK STATS FOR THE TEAMS. AND WHO, WHO WAS YOUR WIFE OR WHO IS YOUR WIFE? UH, MY WIFE IS, UH, JENNIFER COOK.
UH, I, I'M NOT SURE SHE, I KNOW SHE WENT FROM SECOND GRADE, BUT SHE WASN'T BORN HERE.
SHE WAS BORN IN CALIFORNIA, BUT SHE LIVED MOST OF HER LIFE HERE.
AND SHE ENDED UP BEING THE HOMECOMING QUEEN OF OUR CLASS, ACTUALLY.
AND WHEN, WHEN DID YOUR FRIENDSHIP WITH HER TURN INTO OH, SO THAT, THAT'S, THAT'S A VERY GOOD STORY.
SO, UM, I HAD, YOU KNOW, I, I HAD GONE OFF AFTER I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL, I WENT TO WISCONSIN AND STARTED AN ENGINEERING SCHOOL IN MILWAUKEE.
AND THAT REALLY DIDN'T WORK OUT FOR ME.
IT DIDN'T, IT WASN'T SOMETHING I WAS, I DON'T KNOW WHY I WENT.
SO I, I, IT WAS A QUARTER SYSTEM.
I DROPPED OUT OF THE SECOND QUARTER, AND I CAME BACK HERE AND I GOT A, UH, I GOT A JOB WITH OTIS ELEVATOR AND BEING RUNNING THEIR TOOL ROOM WHERE THE MACHINIST WOULD COME UP AND ASK ME FOR A TOOL, SIGN OUT A TOOL ROOM, AND THEN I WOULD DO THAT UNTIL, I THINK IT WAS FOUR O'CLOCK, THREE 30, THEY HAD A FUNNY HOUR.
AND THEN I CAME TO HASTINGS AND I DROVE A CAB.
AND SO I BASICALLY PICKED PEOPLE UP AT THE TRAIN STATION AND TOOK THEM HOME AFTER WORK.
AND OCCASIONALLY I DROVE SOMEBODY TO THE AIRPORT, WHICH I LIKED A LOT, GOING TO THE AIRPORT.
UM, THEN I WAS GOING TO GET, UH, DRAFTED TO THE VIETNAM WAR.
AND, UM, I WASN'T REALLY COMFORTABLE WITH THE IDEA OF BEING IN A POSITION OF SHOOTING ANYBODY.
SO I LOOKED INTO, UH, WHAT DO I DO? YOU KNOW, HOW, WHAT, WHAT DO I DO TO GET OUT OF THIS? AND AT THE TIME, THERE WAS THIS REALLY WONDERFUL DRAFT COUNSELING SERVICE IN SCARSDALE.
THESE FOUR OR FIVE JEWISH LADIES OPERATED THIS WONDERFUL, UH, DRAFT COUNSELING.
AND YOU WENT AND THEY SAID, WELL, YOU COULD DO THIS, YOU COULD DO THIS, YOU COULD DO THIS, OR YOU COULD GO BACK TO SCHOOL.
AND THAT WAS LIKE, YOU KNOW, THE LIGHT BULB WENT OFF.
SO I, I FOUND OUT THROUGH A FRIEND THAT, UH, TEXAS A AND M HAD JUST STARTED THIS NEW ENGINEERING, UH, PROGRAM IN ARCHITECTURE CALLED ENVIRONMENTAL DESIGN.
SOUNDED SOMETHING LIKE I'D BE INTERESTED IN.
I CALLED THEM UP, I TRANSFERRED MY CREDITS, AND I WENT TO TEXAS A AND M.
AND, UH, I GRADUATED, I TAUGHT THERE FOR, IN THE, IN THE PROGRAM FOR THREE YEARS.
AND THEN I NEEDED TO GO GET A GRADUATE DEGREE.
SO I CAME TO NEW YORK AND I GOT, I ENTERED, UH, SCHOOL OF VISUAL ARTS IN NEW YORK.
WHEN I GOT OUT OF GRADUATE SCHOOL, I WAS HAVING MY 20TH HIGH SCHOOL REUNION.
I WENT TO MY 20TH HIGH SCHOOL REUNION.
AND I WAS VERY CURIOUS ABOUT JENNIFER COOK, UM, BECAUSE I, SHE WAS MY HOME MONITOR IN HIGH SCHOOL.
SHE IS, UH, I, SHE SORT OF HAD MY EYE, SHE HAD A BOYFRIEND.
I WAS NOT A BOYFRIEND, UH, BUT I WAS CURIOUS WHETHER SHE WAS MARRIED, WAS SINGLE, SO SHE WAS SINGLE.
SO I WENT, UM, WE SORT OF REINTRODUCED THESE, OR SHE DIDN'T KNOW WHO I WAS, SO I MADE A POINT OF HER GETTING TO KNOW ME.
AND, UH, AND WE LIKED EACH OTHER.
UH, AND I THINK SHE WOULD PROBABLY CORRECT ME, I'M NOT, PROBABLY NOT RIGHT ON THIS.
MAYBE A YEAR AND A HALF AFTER THAT, WE ENDED UP GETTING MARRIED,
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UM, AND LIVING IN THE CITY FOR 10 YEARS.SO WHAT DID YOUR DAD TELL YOU ABOUT GROWING, OF, OF HIS EXPERIENCE GROWING UP IN HASTINGS? OH, WELL, MY, MY FATHER, UH, RUDOLPH OF AVRA, UH, WAS THE SON OF STEVEN AND CAROLINE AVRA.
AND HE HAD ONE SISTER AND TWO BROTHERS, EMILY, TONY AND STEVE.
AND THEY, UH, THOSE THREE BOYS, I THINK, UH, ACCORDING TO MY FATHER, AND IT MUST HAVE BEEN BECAUSE THE HISTORICAL SOCIETY ACTUALLY USED THE PHOTOGRAPH OF THAT FAMILY AS THEIR, ONE OF THEIR POSTERS ONCE, UM, THEY SORT OF MADE A REAL IMPRESSION IN, IN TOWN.
AND THEY, MY FATHER WAS THE YOUNGEST OF THE BROTHERS.
UM, AND IT WAS A DIFFERENT, VERY DIFFERENT TOWN THAN WHEN I WAS GROWING UP.
UH, UH, THEY WERE FACTORY WORKERS.
MY FATHER AT AGE 19, I GUESS 18, ACTUALLY WENT OFF TO WORLD WAR II, UM, CAME BACK.
I HAD BEEN TOLD THAT MY FATHER WAS PART OWNER OF THE FARGATE HOUSE, UH, THAT HE OWNED THE BOWEN.
THERE WAS A BOWEN ALLEY IN THE BASEMENT THAT HE OWNED, UM, AND THAT HE OWNED.
AND, AND THESE ARE VERY YOUNG AGES, RIGHT? HE OWNED A TAXI CAB SERVICE WITH TWO LASALLE CABS.
THIS IS STORIES THAT I'VE BEEN TOLD, UH, UH, AS YOU MAY KNOW, THERE, THERE, I THINK THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN 17 BARS IN HASTINGS AT THE TIME.
SO THOSE WERE THE PLACES TO SOCIALIZE, RIGHT? SO MY UNCLES AND MY FATHER WERE PROBABLY HAD THEIR FAVORITES, BUT I'M SURE THEY WENT TO ALL OF THEM.
UH, I DAD, MY DAD TOLD ME WHEN HE WAS A KID, HE, THEY WALKED ACROSS THE HUDSON RIVER WHEN IT WAS WINTERTIME, WHICH WAS REALLY INTERESTING.
UM, THAT'S KIND OF PRETTY MUCH IT.
HE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT THE WAR AT ALL.
WAS HE UPSET THAT YOU DIDN'T GO INTO THE VIETNAM WAR? WELL, GROWING UP, MY FATHER ALWAYS WAS, YOU KNOW, IT WAS A, IT WAS VERY TIMELY, RIGHT? IT WAS A VERY SPECIFIC TIME IN OUR HISTORY AS A COUNTRY.
SO MY FATHER SAY, AH, THE SERVICE IS ALWAYS GONNA BE GOOD FOR YOU, SERVICE BE GOOD FOR YOU.
BUT THEN WHEN THE GOVERNMENT TRIED DRAFTING ME OUT OF COLLEGE, IT, YOU KNOW, WHY ARE THEY TRYING TO TAKE MY SON OUT OF COLLEGE? YOU KNOW? SO, SO IT WAS LIKE, HE WAS, HE WAS PART OF THAT GENERATION I THINK, THAT HAD, UM, CONFLICTING ISSUES THAT THEY WEREN'T REALLY SURE ABOUT, THAT THEY, YOU KNOW, THEY WERE PASSIONATE ABOUT THINGS, BUT THEN THEY WERE NOT PASSIONATE ABOUT IT FOR OTHER REASONS.
AND SO IT WAS SORT OF A TRANSITIONAL TIME IN OUR HISTORY AS A COUNTRY, I THINK.
AND THEY WERE THAT GENERATION.
UM, I, I, I HOLD HIM IN GREAT ESTEEM.
THEY SAVED THE WORLD, BASICALLY.
SO YOU SAID THAT HE WAS CONSERVATIVE.
WAS HE UPSET THAT YOU BECAME AN ARTIST? NO, HE, HE LIKED THAT.
HE, HE WAS VERY HAPPY THAT I BECAME AN ARTIST, I THINK AT, WHEN I WAS YOUNGER.
UH, ONE OF MY COUSINS WAS AN ALL AMERICAN QUARTERBACK.
ONE OF MY COUSINS, AN ALL AMERICAN QUARTERBACK, RICHIE WEE.
AND, UM, HE WAS, OH, I DON'T KNOW, MUCH OLDER THAN ME.
I'M GOING TO JUST GUESS 10 YEARS OLDER THAN ME.
SO AS A LITTLE CHILD, I HAD THIS COUSIN WHO WAS THIS GREAT ATHLETE.
HIS BROTHER WAS A GREAT ATHLETE ALSO.
UM, AND SO BEING THE OLDEST MALE NEXT IN THE FAMILY, THERE WAS THIS, OH, WELL, RICHIE'S A FABULOUS ATHLETE, THEREFORE, THE NEXT MALE'S GONNA BE A GREAT ATHLETE, RIGHT?
SO I REMEMBER, THIS IS A GREAT STORY.
I REMEMBER BEING AT MY PARENTS' HOUSE.
WE LIVED ON FARRAGUT AT THE TIME, CLOSE TO THE SCHOOL.
AND RICHARD BUB, WHO WAS THE HEAD FOOTBALL COACH, CAME OVER FOR DINNER.
AND, AND I MIGHT HAVE BEEN 12 AT THE TIME, AND HE BROUGHT A FOOTBALL AND HE HANDED IT TO ME,
AND, UH, YOU KNOW, I GOT A FREE FOOTBALL.
I WAS VERY HAPPY, RIGHT? LATER ON WHEN I'M IN HIGH SCHOOL, MAYBE I'M 16 AT THE TIME, I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE I WAS 17, JUNIOR OR SOPHOMORE YEAR, I'M DOWN AT REYNOLDS FIELD, THROWING THE FOOTBALL WITH SOME OF MY FRIENDS.
AND COACH BUB WAS DOWN THERE PRACTICING WITH HIS, AND HE CAME OVER AND
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SAID, LET ME SEE THAT FOOTBALLAND WE SHOWED HIM THE FOOTBALL, AND HE SAID, WHERE'D YOU GET THIS? I SAID, YOU GAVE IT TO ME.
HE SAID, WELL, HE WALKED AWAY WITH IT.
I DIDN'T BECOME, I DID BECOME THE FABULOUS FOOTBALL PLAYER,
BUT MY FATHER WAS VERY HAPPY THAT, UH, VERY PROUD OF ME TO BECOME A, A PAINTER.
WHAT, WHAT KIND OF, UH, STYLE OF PAINTING DO YOU DO? UH, ABSTRACT.
UH, NOT HUGE, LARGE, BUT LARGE.
YOU KNOW, I WAS JUST, I JUST THOUGHT, 'CAUSE YOU ASKED ME THAT QUESTION WHEN WE WERE, WHEN I WAS TALKING ABOUT MY WIFE AND YOU ASKED ME ABOUT MEETING HER AND GETTING TOGETHER WITH HER AND HOW THAT HAPPENED.
UM, THERE'S A, WHEN WE GOT MARRIED, WE, OUR WEDDING WAS COVERED BY THE NEW YORK TIMES, AND WE GOT IN THEIR VOWS COLUMN.
AND SO YOU, IT'S, IT'S A WONDERFUL LITTLE STORY ABOUT THAT.
WELL, THE, THE, THE, THE, THE, WE WERE, WE, WE GOT TOGETHER, WE WERE, I HAD A LOFT IN, IN TRIBECA.
AND, UH, WE WERE LIVING THERE.
WE LIVED, WE HAD A LITTLE KITCHEN IN THE BACK AND A PLACE TO SLEEP IN THE BATHROOM.
AND THEN EVERYTHING ELSE WAS FOR PAINTING.
AND MY WIFE WAS A MAGAZINE EDITOR.
SO WE LIVED THERE, AND WE WERE VERY HAPPY JUST LIVING THERE TOGETHER.
AND WE, YOU KNOW WHAT, WE DIDN'T, WE WEREN'T SITTING AROUND SAYING, OH, SHOULD WE GET MARRIED? WOULD WE NOT GET MARRIED? BUT WE WENT TO VISIT HER FATHER, WHO AT THE TIME LIVED UP IN, UH, COLUMBIA COUNTY, AND HE HAD BEEN THE PRESIDENT OF INTERNATIONAL HOUSE FOR 25 YEARS.
AND HE WAS A REALLY GREAT MAN.
AND SO EVERY TIME WE'D GO SEE HIM, HE WOULD SAY, AT SOME POINT DURING THE DINNER OF THE VISIT, ARE YOU GUYS GONNA GET MARRIED? AND WE WOULD SAY, OH, YEAH, BUT WE WERE TOO BUSY, LIKE DOING OUR JOBS AND LIVING OUR LIVES AND DOING LAUNDRY AND, YOU KNOW, GROCERY SHOPPING TO THINK ABOUT MARRIAGE, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT TAKES TIME.
SO FINALLY, ONE DAY WE WERE HAVING BREAKFAST OR DINNER OR SOMETHING, AND, UH, WE, I DON'T KNOW WHO SAID IT FIRST, BUT WE, IT WAS AS THOUGH WE JUST LOOKED AT EACH OTHER AND THE LIGHT BULB WENT OFF, AND WE SAID, OH, HE WANTS US TO GET MARRIED BEFORE HE DIES.
SO WE JUST SPENT, YOU KNOW, I I, I STOPPED PAINTING FOR FOUR OR FIVE MONTHS.
WE MADE PLANNING THIS WEDDING.
WE MADE THIS BOOK, UM, ABOUT OUR WEDDING.
WE TURNED INTO THIS, UH, KIND OF ART PROJECT, UM, AND WE HAD TO GET A CAKE MAKER.
WE GOT A CAKE MAKER THROUGH A CONNECTION OF A, A RESTAURANT THAT, OR CHEF THAT WE KNEW.
AND TURNED OUT THAT THE CAKE MAKER WAS A FAMOUS CAKE MAKER WHO HAD, UH, WAS A SOURCE FOR THE NEW YORK TIMES FOR THEIR VOWS COLUMN.
AND WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT OUR CAKE, SHE WAS ASKING, THE CAKE MAKER WAS ASKING US ALL THESE QUESTIONS.
SO SHE THOUGHT, OH, THESE ARE GOOD PEOPLE.
SHE CALLED THE VOWS COLUMN, AND THEY SAID, OH, THEY CALLED US AND SAID, HEY, WOULD YOU DO THIS FOR US? AND WE SAID, YEAH, OF COURSE.
SO THEY SENT A PHOTOGRAPHER, AND THAT'S GREAT.
SO WHEN YOU WERE, WHEN YOU WERE LIVING IN HASTINGS, WHEN YOU WERE IN SCHOOL, DID, WAS THERE A PARTICULAR BAR THAT YOU HUNG OUT AT? UM, IT'S FUNNY, THERE WERE TWO BARS THAT I REMEMBER WHERE THE KIDS, THE, YOU KNOW, WHERE KIDS WENT, RIGHT? UH, ONE WAS RIGHT OVER THE YONKERS HASTINGS LINE IN YONKERS ON SAWMILL RIVER ROAD OVER THERE.
I FORGET WHAT IT'S MY, I FORGET THE NAME OF IT.
I, I WANNA SAY IT WAS SAM'S, BUT THAT WASN'T IT.
THAT'S ANOTHER RESTAURANT IN RAI.
BUT IT WAS, IT WAS A, IT WAS AN ITALIAN RESTAURANT, AND IT HAD A BAR.
AND, UH, AS, UH, THEY WOULD, THEY WOULD KIND OF LENIENT WITH LETTING, I MEAN, IT WAS SORT OF LIKE THEY WOULD JUDGE WHETHER YOU WERE GONNA BE OKAY WITH A, A WEAK DRINKER OR NOT.
AND SO OCCASIONALLY PEOPLE WENT THERE, BUT THEN WHEN PEOPLE BECAME LEGAL TO DRINK, UH, THERE WAS A BAR UP IN TARRYTOWN THAT WAS, THAT HAD MUSIC YOU COULD DANCE, AND IT WAS OTHER KIDS FROM OTHER TOWNS CAME.
AND, UH, PEOPLE WENT THERE MORE OFTEN.
AND THAT'S ACTUALLY WHEN I WAS, UH, I DROPPED OUT OF SCHOOL IN WISCONSIN AND WAS DOING THESE JOBS AND ABOUT TO GET, I GOT A DRAFT NOTICE OF NUMBER 17, WHICH MEANS LIKE, EXCUSE ME, I CAN'T DO THIS ANYMORE.
UM, I WAS KIND OF DOWN AND OUT AND I WAS TALKING TO, UH, THIS PERSON, UH, GREG DCO, WHO WAS A YEAR AHEAD OF ME IN HIGH SCHOOL, WHO HAD JUST GONE OFF TO COLLEGE.
AND HE HAD GONE TO TEXAS A AND M AND HE, HE SAID, HEY, YOU KNOW, THEY JUST STARTED THIS NEW PROGRAM
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APPLY.SO HOW, HOW DID YOU, IF WAS YOUR MOM ALSO CONSERVATIVE? UH, YEAH.
I, I THINK NOT QUITE THE SAME AS MY FATHER.
MY FATHER WAS WELL, LOUDER
MY MOTHER, MY MOTHER WAS CONSERVATIVE.
UM, MY MOTHER, GRACE, UH, SHE GREW UP HERE ALSO.
AND, UM, I THINK DURING THE WAR, MY MOTHER, FROM WHAT I'VE BEEN TOLD, UH, WAS UP IN TARRYTOWN WORKING ON PLANES, UH, FOR THE WAR.
UM, I THINK SHE WANTED TO BE A NURSE, UH, AS A PROFESSION, BUT SHE DIDN'T BECOME A NURSE.
YOU KNOW, AT THAT TIME, YOU, YOU HAD BABIES, YOU WERE A MOTHER, YOU STAYED HOME.
AND THAT WAS, THAT WAS A CONCERN.
MY FATHER, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE, YOU'RE, YOU'RE THE WIFE.
YOU, SO, SO SHE, SHE RAISED HER KIDS.
MY FATHER BEING A TRUCK DRIVER, HE WAS NOT HOME THAT OFTEN.
WHEN HE WAS HOME, HE WAS LIKE, GREAT, YOU KNOW, HE WAS JUST LIKE, HAPPY TO BE HOME.
HE'S, MY FATHER WAS EXTREMELY GENEROUS.
UM, WE LIVED, UH, IN THOSE TWO APARTMENTS.
BUT THEN AT SOME POINT, MY MOTHER WANTED TO OWN A HOUSE.
AND FROM WHAT I WAS TOLD, SHE KEPT SAYING TO MY FATHER WANTED OUR OWN HOUSE, I WANT MY OWN HOUSE.
MY FATHER SAID, OKAY, WE'LL GO LOOK, WE'LL GO LOOK.
BUT JUST KEPT SAYING, OKAY, WE'LL GO LOOK, GO LOOK.
AND THEN ONE DAY MY MOTHER WENT TO LOOK HERSELF, FOUND A HOUSE SHE LIKED, WENT TO THE BANK, TOOK MONEY OUT OF THEIR SAVINGS, AND BOUGHT A HOUSE FOR CASH.
AND YEAH, I KNOW
UH, IT HAD FOUR OR FIVE HOUSES IN THE CENTER CI PART OF THE CIRCLE, AND THEN A ROAD THAT WENT AROUND AND THEN HOUSES AROUND THE OUTSIDE OF THE ROAD.
AND WHEN I LIVED THERE, EV ALL THE, ALL THE FAMILIES WERE THE SAME AGE AS MY PARENTS, AND THERE WERE MAYBE 30 KIDS ALL THE SAME AGES.
RIGHT? AND SO THAT WAS FANTASTIC TO PLACE TO GROW UP.
AND ONE OF THE THINGS MY FATHER DID THAT I REMEMBER WAS JUST SO WONDERFUL WHEN IT WE'RE GETTING, WE'RE GETTING, GET A HUGE SNOW STORM IN SUNDAY AND SAT SUNDAY AND MONDAY WHEN WE, WHEN IT WOULD SNOW MY FATHER, THIS SPECIFIC TIME I REMEMBER IT WAS, HAD A LOT OF SNOW.
MY DAD HAD A 1954 BLACK CHEVROLET, AND HE TOLD ME, HE SAID, GO GET YOUR FRIENDS.
TELL 'EM TO BRING THEIR SLEIGHS.
SO I WENT AND I TOLD MY FRIENDS, AND WE ALL BROUGHT THE SWAYS, AND MIKE SAID, OKAY, TIE YOUR SWAYS TOGETHER.
AND THEN HE TIED THEM TO THE BACK OF HIS CAR AND HE DROVE PULLING US AROUND AT THE CIRCLE.
AND OF COURSE, AS KIDS, WE WERE JUST LIKE, OH, THIS IS, THIS IS THE BEST THING.
THIS WAS LIKE, COULDN'T GET BETTER THAN THIS.
SO HE WAS, HE WAS REALLY, HE WAS REALLY GOOD.
AND THE OTHER THING HE DID, HE, BECAUSE HE WAS A TRUCK DRIVER, HE WOULD, UH, HE HAD LOTS OF FRIENDS AROUND THE EAST COAST.
HE WOULD DO THINGS LIKE, HE WOULD COME HOME WITH A CASE OF LOBSTERS OR HE WOULD COME HOME WITH A BUSHEL BASKET OF PEACHES OR HE WOULD COME HOME, YOU KNOW, UH, A THING OF, HUGE THING OF CORN.
AND SO IT WAS LIKE, HEY, GET EVERYBODY, COME ON.
WERE THERE OTHER STORIES THAT HE TOLD YOU ABOUT HIS GROWING UP IN HASTINGS? UM, YEAH.
SOME OF 'EM, UH, PROBABLY, I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN SAY OUT LOUD, BUT, UH, HE TOLD ME THIS ONE STORY WHERE HE WAS SITTING, UH, IN THE BAR, IN THE BOOTH, UH, AND I ACTUALLY HAVE SOME PHOTOGRAPHS THIS I WANNA GIVE TO THE, THE HISTORICAL SOCIETY, UH, WITH MY MOTHER AND ANOTHER COUPLE, AND SOME YOUNG GUYS, THIS IS WHEN THEY'RE YOUNG, AND SOME YOUNG GUYS FROM YONKERS.
THIS STORY GOES, UH, CAME INTO THE BAR AND THEY WERE LOUD AND THEY WERE USING FOUL LANGUAGE.
AND MY FATHER BEING, UM, OF A CERTAIN OF GENERATION AND APPROPRIATE GOT UP AND ASKED THEM TO PLEASE TONE IT DOWN.
AND, UM, THEY SEEMED TO IGNORE IT.
AND MY FATHER TOLD ME THAT HE GOT UP WITH HIS FRIEND AND SAID, LET'S GO OUTSIDE.
SO THERE ARE MANY STORIES LIKE THAT THAT, UH, THESE GUYS, RIGHT, THESE YOUNG BUCKS, THAT'S THE WAY THEY OPERATED IN TOWN.
[00:30:04]
WELL, UH, MY GRANDFATHER, WHO I NEVER MET, WHO DIED AT A YOUNG AGE, UM, WAS NOT SUPPOSED TO VISIT BARS.I DON'T KNOW IF HE WAS, YOU KNOW, HE HAD LIVER PROBLEMS OR WHATEVER.
FOR WHATEVER REASON, HE WASN'T SUPPOSED TO LIVE AT BARS.
AND SO HIS OLDEST SON, UH, THESE ARE STORIES I'VE BEEN TOLD BY MY DAD, HIS OLDEST SON, MY UNCLE TONY.
UM, AND MY UNCLE STEVE AND MY FATHER WERE WALKING ONE DAY, UM, I THINK IT WAS ON WALBURN, AND I DON'T REMEMBER THE NAME OF THE BAR, BUT I THINK IT WAS ONE RIGHT NEAR THE CORNER THERE.
AND THEY WALKED BY AND THEY SAW THEIR FATHER IN THE BAR.
AND SO MY FATHER SAID THAT MY UNCLE TONY, AND MY UNCLE STEVE SAID TO HIM, BEING THE YOUNGEST, YOU STAY OUT HERE.
AND MY UNCLE TONY, WAS A RATHER BIG GUY, AND HE WENT UP TO THE BARTENDER AND SAID, YOU KNOW, SO AND SO, I I I TOLD YOU THAT MY FATHER'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE IN THESE BARS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE SERVING THEM.
AND THE BARTENDER WAS SUBMISSIVE.
AND MY FATHER TELLS ME THAT MY UNCLE WENT TO ONE END OF THE BAR, AND MY OTHER UNCLE WENT TO THE OTHER END OF THE BAR, AND THEY GRABBED THE BAR AND THEY STARTED RA SHAKING IT LIKE THEY WERE GONNA PULL, YOU KNOW, LIKE, THEY WERE ACTING LIKE THEY WERE GONNA PULL IT OUTTA THE FLOOR.
AND THAT, THAT GOT A LOT OF TENSION,
SO THERE WERE STORIES LIKE THAT.
SO HAVE YOU, I THINK THAT WAS A, I THINK THAT KIND OF THING WAS COMMON TOO, BY THE WAY,
HAVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT YOUR EVOLUTION POLITICALLY OR FROM CONSERVATIVE TO NOT BEING CONSERVATIVE, COMING OUT OF A FAMILY THAT WAS CONSERVATIVE? WELL, I THOUGHT ABOUT MY POLITICAL POLITICS A LOT, ACTUALLY, ESPECIALLY NOW.
UM, I, I WAS RAISED BY, UH, A GENERATION WHO WENT OFF WHEN THEY WERE VERY YOUNG.
I MEAN, MY FATHER LITERALLY WALKED AROUND THE WORLD, YOU KNOW, NOT, I MEAN, YOU WENT TO NORTH AFRICA, THEN WENT TO ITALY.
HE IS, YOU KNOW, UM, UM, AT AGE 18.
SO THAT GENERATION, THEY, THEY WENT AND THEY DID THIS THING THAT WE ALL BENEFITED FROM.
THEN THEY CAME BACK AND HAD US.
AND SO I'M OF THE GENERATION THAT'S EXTREMELY PRIVILEGED TO HAVE BEEN BORN RIGHT AFTER THAT EVENT.
I MEAN, IT COULDN'T BE BETTER THAT THE WORLD WAS GREAT FOR THE REMAKE.
UM, I FEEL LIKE EVEN THOUGH MY PARENTS WERE NOT WEALTHY, I HAD EVERYTHING I COULD EVER WANT AS A CHILD.
UM, AND THEN AS I BECAME AN ADOLESCENT, UH, THERE WERE THESE LEADERS, POLITICAL LEADERS THAT WERE, UH, JOHN KENNEDY, MARTIN LUTHER KING, MALCOLM X, BOBBY KENNEDY.
UM, SOME OF THE THINGS THAT THEY SPOKE ABOUT WERE JUST WONDERFUL AND HOPEFUL AND SPIRITUAL.
SO MY POLITICS WERE, WERE NOT BASICALLY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH MY, WHERE MY PARENTS WERE POLITICALLY.
MY POLITICS CAME FROM MY ENVIRONMENT THAT I WAS IN, THAT I TIME I LIVED IN.
AND, UM, HAVEN'T REALLY CHANGED FROM THAT.
I MEAN, UH, WE'RE LIVING IN, I NEVER WOULD'VE EXPECTED US TO BE WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW.
I MEAN, IT'S, I FEEL A LITTLE BIT RESPONSIBLE, ALMOST LIKE, UH, I GOT LAZY AND TOOK THINGS FOR GRANTED, YOU KNOW? UH, WE ALL DID, PERHAPS, UH, AND, UH, I HOPE THAT WE'LL RECOVER.
WELL, RUDY, IT'S BEEN FANTASTIC.
AND, UH, WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT TIME.