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ARE YOU READY? ALL RIGHT.[Call to Order]
WELCOME TO THE AUGUST 27TH MEETING OF THE HASTINGS ON HUDSON ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS.UM, WE HAVE A COUPLE CASES TODAY, UM, FOR EACH CASE, WE'RE GONNA HAVE THE APPLICANT COME UP AND PRESENT.
THE BOARD WILL ASK QUESTIONS OF THE APPLICANT, WILL TAKE PUBLIC COMMENT, UH, FROM THE STUDIO AUDIENCE IF THERE IS ANY.
UH, AND THEN THE BOARD WILL DISCUSS THE CASE AND VOTE.
UM, ARE ALL THE MAILINGS IN ORDER, MR. BUILDING INSPECTOR? YES.
WELL, I HAVE BEEN INFORMED BY MY STAFF THAT ALL THE MAILINGS ARE IN ORDER.
[Case No. 09-26 ]
CASE NUMBER OH 9 2 6 MAX NODO AND LINDSEY KIRSCHNER, UH, 65 WASHINGTON AVENUE.OH, I FORGOT TO PULL OUT THE CORD.
MY NAME IS GABRIEL C I'M THE ARCHITECT FOR 65 WASHINGTON, UM, HERE REPRESENTING MAX AND LINDSAY NOTTO.
AND THEY'RE 12 HOURS OLD BABY WHO WAS BORN.
UM, SO THIS IS FOR A VIEW PRESERVATION SATURDAY.
WE ARE ADDING, UM, UH, AN ADDITION TO THE SECOND FLOOR, A BATHROOM ADDITION.
UM, WE, SORRY, MY SCREEN SHOULD BE, THAT'S YOU, GABRIEL.
UM, SO WE ARE ADDING, UH, NINE FEET BY EIGHT FEET, UH, BOX, UH, TO THE SECOND FLOOR.
UH, WE HAVE SOME, UM, UM, PHOTOGRAPHS AROUND THE HOUSE, UM, YOU KNOW, FROM PUBLIC VIEW AND ALSO FROM THE REAR YARD, FROM THE, UM, AQUEDUCT AND, UM, AND FROM THE, UH, NEIGHBORING PROPERTY ON THE EAST SIDE, UM, TO SHOW, UM, YOU KNOW, HOW THE ADDITION WILL AFFECT OR NOT, UH, RIVER REVEALS.
SO THE PROJECT, UH, THE, IT CONSISTS OF CONVERTING A TWO FAMILY HOUSE TO A SINGLE FAMILY.
UH, THAT'S CURRENTLY AN APARTMENT ON THE, ON THE LOWER FLOOR.
SO WE ARE, UM, REMOVING THE KITCHEN OF THAT APARTMENT AND REINTRODUCING A, A STAIR TO CONNECT FLOOR ONE TO TWO.
AND THEN, UM, REDOING THE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE TYPICAL RENOVATIONS LIKE, UH, BATHROOMS AND, UH, UH, FIRST FLOOR KITCHEN.
AND THEN THE AREA THAT'S HIGHLIGHTED IN, IN YELLOW IS THE, THE BATHROOM THAT WE ARE ADDING TO THE SECOND FLOOR.
SO JUST TO WALK YOU THROUGH THE PLANS, LIKE AS YOU COME UP FROM THE PORCH ON WASHINGTON, YOU HAVE AN EXISTING STA THAT LEADS YOU UP TO THE SECOND FLOOR.
AND ONCE YOU LAND ON THE BACK OF THAT, UH, FLOOR PLAN, YOU HAVE TWO ROOMS THAT FLANKS THE STAIR.
SO WE'RE ADDING, UH, THE BATHROOM TO THE LANDING TO BE ACCESSED FROM THE LANDING OF, UH, OF THE STAIR ON THE UPPER FLOOR.
THOSE ARE, UH, EXISTING ELEVATIONS SHOWING HOW THE, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, THE, THE TOPOGRAPHY OF THE HOUSE LOOKS LIKE.
AND THEN THE RE, YOU KNOW, THE IMPOSED, UM, ADDITION IN YELLOW AGAIN.
UM, WE ARE BUILDING SEVEN FEET FROM THE, FROM THE FLOOR OF THE, UH, ABOVE THE SECOND FLOOR RIGHT FROM THE FLOOR LEVEL.
AND THEN, UH, AND THEN WE ARE SLOPING THE ROOF.
UH, IT GETS UP TO 10 FEET FROM THE SECOND FLOOR, UH, FINISH FLOOR, UH, WHICH IS ABOUT TWO FEET BELOW THE EXISTING RIDGE.
SO THE, THE ADDITION IS NOT GONNA BE REALLY VISIBLE FROM THE STREET SIDE, WHICH WILL, UH, SHOW IN A SECOND ON THE, ON THOSE PHOTOS.
THIS IS A SECTION DIAGRAM SHOWING HOW WE ARE, UH, PUTTING THIS ADDITION TOGETHER.
AND, UH, SO THE PHOTOS ARE THE ONE AND TWO, SORRY, THE TOP ROW IS SHOWING EXISTING CONDITIONS.
AND THEN THE BOTTOM ROW IS SHOWING, UM, UH, THE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE PROPOSED CONDITION.
UM, SO PHOTO ONE IS REALLY SHOWING FROM WASHINGTON.
YOU SEE THE, THE ADDITION IS NOT PERCEIVABLE.
AND THEN PHOTOS, TWO AND THREE YEARS FROM THE BACK PROPERTY, SORRY, THE BACKYARD, UM, UH, SHOWING THE VOLUME OF THE ADDITION, UM, YOU KNOW, IMPOSED OVER THE PHOTO.
AND THERE'S PHOTOS FOUR, FIVE, AND SIX THAT THERE IS NOT REALLY CHANGES, RIGHT? UM, FOUR AND FIVE AGAIN ARE FROM WASHINGTON, AND THEN SIX IS FROM THE AQUEDUCT.
YOU, YOU DON'T REALLY SEE THE HOUSE FROM THE AQUEDUCT, UH, YOU KNOW, THEREFORE YOU WON'T SEE THE ADDITION.
UM, AND THEN, UH, AS PRO, YOU KNOW, AS WE WENT
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THROUGH THE, UM, PLANNING BOARD, THEY, UM, THE BOARD ASKED US TO EXPLORE SOME DEALS FROM THE IMMEDIATE PROPERTY TO THE EAST, UH, WHICH IS, UH, FOUR, SORRY, 67 WASHINGTON PARTICULARLY.THERE IS A WINDOW HERE ON THE SECOND FLOOR, AND IT'S HIDDEN ON THIS PHOTO, BUT THERE IS A WINDOW ALSO FACING THE HOUSE ON THE FIRST FLOOR AND THE WINDOWS THREE AND FOUR THAT FACES THE BACK OR NORTH.
UM, SO WE, WE ASKED THE HOMEOWNER TO TAKE, UH, SOME PHOTOS.
THIS WAS THE DIAGRAM WE SHARED WITH, UH, THEM.
UH, SO WE COULD STUDY HOW THE ADDITION WILL IMPACT OR NOT REVEALS.
SO PHOTOS, UH, SEVEN AND EIGHT ARE FROM THE SECOND FLOOR EDITION, LOOKING TOWARDS THE PALISADES.
UM, AND AGAIN, THE, THE, THE BOTTOM ROW IMAGES SHOW, UM, THE VOLUME OF OUR AUDITION IMPOSED OVER THE PHOTOS.
AND THEN, UH, PHOTO NUMBER NINE IS FROM HER, HER KITCHEN, UH, WHICH IS ON THE, HER CHICKEN, SORRY, KITCHEN, UH, UH, WINDOW, WHICH ON THE FIRST FLOOR, UM, YOU KNOW, LOOKING TOWARDS THE PALISADES AS WELL.
AND, UH, PHOTOS 10 AND 11 ARE FROM THE WINDOWS, UH, FACING THE NORTH, WHICH NOT REALLY FACING WHAT THE WORK WE ARE DOING TO OUR, TO OUR PROJECT, UH, BUT JUST TO REPRESENT WHAT TYPE OF VIEWS THEY HAVE FROM THE SECOND FLOOR, UH, WINDOWS FACING NORTH.
AND LASTLY, THOSE ARE SOME IMAGES AS WE ARE STANDING ON THE ROOF DECK OF OUR PROJECT LOOKING TOWARDS WEST.
SO THE, THE HOUSE NEXT DOOR JUST TO THE WEST OF US, HAS A VERY SIMILAR ADDITION THAT WE ARE PROPOSING TERMS OF HEIGHT AND IMPACT TO THE DEALS.
UM, THE, THE, THE PHOTOS HERE WE'RE TAKING, YOU KNOW, IN THE COURSE OF THE SUMMER, SO THE FOLIAGES ARE, YOU KNOW, THE TREES ARE FULL.
UH, BUT, UH, I THINK IF I GO BACK TO THOSE IMAGE, OOPS, TO THIS IMAGE HERE, YOU CAN KIND OF FOLLOW THE LINE OF THE PALISADES, UH, THE, THE, IT LOOKS LIKE OUR ADDITION IS JUST UNDERNEATH THAT, UH, LINE IF YOU ARE TO, YOU KNOW, EXTEND WHERE THE LINE IS NOW.
UM, AND THOSE ARE JUST OTHER PHOTOS JUST TO, UH, SHOW TO THE BOARD, UH, THE TWO WINDOWS THAT WERE, UM, THAT WE ARE ASKED TO EXPLORE, UM, DURING THE PLANNING BOARD, UM, REVIEW PROCESS.
YEAH, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I HAVE.
ANY QUESTIONS? UM, SO THIS PROJECT WAS NOTICED AS NORMAL.
DID YOU, DID WE RECEIVE ANY, UH, COMMENTS FROM ANYBODY IN THE PUBLIC? WE HAVEN'T RECEIVED ANY OFFICIAL COMMENTS OR EMAILS OR LETTERS FROM ANYBODY.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? ASSUMING THERE'S NO ONE HERE FROM THE PUBLIC
I MEAN, I, I GUESS I'D BE SORT OF CURIOUS TO KNOW WHAT THE, THE NEIGHBORS WHOSE COOPERATION YOU GOT TAKING THE PICTURES ULTIMATELY THOUGHT, UH, THEY DIDN'T OPPOSE OR OBJECT TO THE, THE PROJECT.
UH, IT WAS INTERESTING THAT THEY DIDN'T, I, I ASKED ACCESS TO GO AND PHOTOGRAPH MYSELF.
UH, I THINK THERE'S SOME SENSITIVITY ON THAT
SO WE SENT A DIAGRAM FOR THEM TO TAKE THE PHOTOS THEMSELF, BUT THEY, THEY DIDN'T OPPOSE.
AND, UH, WE WERE, WE ASKED THEM TO HAVE A, A LETTER OF NO OBJECTION.
I MEAN, THE, THE HOUSE IS CURRENTLY, UH, RENTED.
UM, IT IS NOT THE OWNER WHO LIVES IN THE PLACE, BUT FROM NEITHER THE, THE TENANT OR THE, THE OWNER OF THE HOUSE HAVE OBJECTED OUR PROJECT.
I HAVE SPOKE TO THE OWNER OF THE HOUSE AND I HAVE SPOKE TO THE TENANT OF THE HOUSE, UH, OFF, UM, OFF RECORD, OFF HOURS, OFF BUSINESS HOURS.
AND NEITHER OF 'EM HAD VOICED ANY OBJECTION TO ME PERSONALLY.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT, I DON'T KNOW LEGALLY, I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT WORKS, BUT
I THINK THAT'S IAN POINT IS THEY WERE NOTICED, THEY'RE AWARE OF IT AND THEY DIDN'T OPPOSE THE PROJECT.
AND CAN YOU JUST GO BACK TO THE, I THINK IT WAS PICTURE SIX FOR A SECOND.
UH, OBVIOUSLY THAT'S A FULL FOLIAGE SHOT.
UM, BUT COULD YOU HELP US KIND OF UNDERSTAND WHERE THE HOUSE WOULD BE AND WHERE THE PALISADES WOULD BE? I MEAN, RIGHT.
SO THAT'S, UH, YOU KNOW, AS YOU ARE STANDING ON, ON THE AQUEDUCT, LOOKING TOWARDS, UH, LOOKING TOWARDS WEST, UH, THAT THE, ALL THE FOLIAGE IS REALLY ON THE BACK OF THOSE HOUSES HERE.
UM, I THINK THE TIME I TOOK THIS PHOTO, UH, MALCOLM'S HOUSE HERE, HE STILL HAD THE BAMBOO THAT HAS BEEN, UH, REMOVED AS AS OF TODAY.
UM, BUT THAT, THAT'S NOT EVEN, UH, IT
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WASN'T EVEN FRAMED BY THE PHOTO 'CAUSE I WAS REALLY AIMING TOWARDS THE HOUSE.UM, AND, UM, I, I COULDN'T REALLY FIND THE HOUSE THROUGH THAT, THROUGH THAT, YOU KNOW, THROUGH TO MY FRAME.
I MEAN, UN UNDERSTANDING ALSO THAT THE HOUSES ARE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE, YOU'RE STEPPING DOWN FROM WHERE YOU ARE IN THE AQUA THATT, SO YOU KNOW, IT'S, UH, THE ROOF OF THE HOUSE VERY LIKELY IS BELOW GRADE LEVEL AT THAT POINT.
AND JUST FOR CLARITY, IT IS SOLELY A VIEW PRESERVATION.
UM, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR WE CAN START OUR DISCUSSION? ANY THOUGHTS FOR THIS? IT'S NOT FIVE FACTORS AS MUCH AS IT IS THE STANDARD OF VIEW PRESERVATION, WHICH FOR THE RECORD IS THE LEAST POSSIBLE OBSTRUCTION OF THE VIEW OF THE HUDSON RIVER OR THE PALISADES.
DOES ANYONE HAVE CONCERNS OF THE PROPOSED OBSTRUCTION OF THE HUDSON RIVER OR PALISADES? HONESTLY, I FEEL LIKE THE, YOU KNOW, THE PICTURES SHOW THAT, YOU KNOW, I KNOW THAT THERE IS FULL FOLIAGE, BUT, BUT EVEN TAKING THAT INTO CONSIDERATION, IT SEEMS AS THOUGH ANY BLOCK OF THE VIEW IS, IS REALLY MINIMAL.
AND I THINK EVEN IN WINTER TIME THE TREES ARE STILL GONNA BE THERE.
THERE'S JUST NOT GONNA BE FULL OF LEAVES.
SO ANYBODY ELSE? ANY CONCERNS? NO, I THINK IT'S A REALLY REASONABLE PROPOSAL THAT, UM, PULLS BACK TO BEGIN WITH FROM KIND OF HOW MUCH THEY COULD ENCROACH ON THE VIEW AND IS CONSISTENT WITH THE NEIGHBOR.
AND IT'S NOT A BIG CEILING HEIGHT OR A GIGANTIC FOOTPRINT.
WOULD SOMEBODY CARE TO MAKE A MOTION? I'LL MAKE A MOTION.
UM, I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE CASE NUMBER NINE DASH 26 MAX NODO AND LINDSEY KIRSCHNER 65 WASHINGTON AVENUE.
UM, I DON'T SAY RELIEF OF RIGHT? I JUST SAY FOR VIEW PRESERVATION APPROVAL.
AS FOR SECTION 2 9 5 82 OF THE VILLAGE CODE FOR A REAR TWO STORY EDITION ON THEIR CURRENT TWO FAMILY DWELLING SEC FIVE WASHINGTON AVENUE.
ANYBODY HERE TO SECOND? I CAN SECOND.
GOOD LUCK AND PLEASE PASS ON OUR CONGRATULATIONS TO THE NEWEST HASTINGS RESIDENT, I GUESS.
[Case No. 10-26 ]
NEXT UP WE HAVE CASE NUMBER 10 26, UH, DEREK TARCI AND LAUREN LINDSTROM, 11 ELM PLACE.AND YOU CAN IMMEDIATELY CORRECT IF I MISPRONOUNCE YOUR NAME BY INTRODUCING YOURSELF.
UM, I'M DEREK TARCI, HOMEOWNER AT 11 ELM PLACE.
MY WIFE SHOULD BE HERE IN A SECOND.
SHE'S JUST PUTTING OUR YOUNGEST ASLEEP, UH, NAMED LAUREN LINDSTROM.
UM, I'M JUST GONNA SPEAK FOR A COUPLE MINUTES 'CAUSE I DIDN'T LAST TIME AND I FEEL LIKE I PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE.
UM, SO, UH, LAUREN AND I HAVE LIVED AT 11 EL PLACE AND IN HASTINGS FOR 10 YEARS.
UM, WE MOVED HERE BEFORE WE HAD KIDS AND NOW WE HAVE A NINE YEAROLD BOY AND A 5-YEAR-OLD BOY.
UM, YOU KNOW, WE LOVE HASTINGS.
UM, WE WERE, YOU KNOW, WE WERE REALLY ATTRACTED TO EL PLACE SPECIFICALLY WHEN WE WERE LOOKING AT HOUSES.
UM, 'CAUSE OF WHAT MAKES IT UNIQUE.
IT IT'S, YOU KNOW, PORCHES AND PERIOD HOUSES THAT ARE ALL CLOSE TOGETHER.
UM, I THINK THERE'S A COUPLE HOUSES DOWN FROM US WHERE THE HOUSES ARE TWO AND A HALF FEET FROM EACH OTHER.
UM, THAT'S HOW SORT OF DENSE IT CAN BE.
AND I REMEMBER LAUREN SAYING THAT TO ME WHEN WE WERE LOOKING FOR HOUSES THAT SHE LIKED THE ELM PLACE BECAUSE OF THE DENSITY WE HAD COME FROM BROOKLYN LIKE SO MANY PEOPLE DO.
AND IT REALLY SORT OF APPEALED TO HER, WHICH IS WHY THAT THE SORT OF VIBE OF THAT STREET WORKED, YOU KNOW, REALLY APPEALED FOR US.
UM, WE HAVEN'T DONE ANY RESERVATIONS AND RENOVATIONS IN, UM, THE 10 YEARS WE'VE BEEN HERE.
WE HAD A COUPLE PROJECTS IN MIND THAT WE'VE POSTPONED VARIOUS TIMES.
AND, UM, THIS PLAN SORT OF GROUPED MULTIPLE PROJECTS, WHICH I THINK IS IN PART WHY IT WAS A LITTLE BIT, IT'S A LITTLE BROAD AND, YOU KNOW, WE REDUCED THE VARIANCES WE WERE SEEKING LAST MONTH, BOTH IN SCOPE AND IN NUMBER.
UM, BUT I DO WANNA JUST SORT OF SPEAK BRIEFLY TO THE UM, UH, SORT OF WHY OR THE BENEFITS TO US OF THE EACH SORT OF PIECE.
AND, UM, THEN EVA CAN, UH, TAKE OVER.
UM, SO THE FRONT PORCH DRIVEWAY, UM, PART OF IT, UM, I'M NOT GONNA SPEAK IN TOO MUCH DETAIL 'CAUSE SHE'S GONNA HAVE DIAGRAMS THAT I DON'T WANT TO OVERLY REFERENCE.
BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, UH, FIRST IS MOVING THE DRIVEWAY FROM ONE SIDE OF THE HOUSE TO THE OTHER.
THE, THE DRIVEWAY CURRENTLY IS, UM, RIGHT NEXT TO THE DRIVEWAY, A 15, A 15 ELM WHO, AND THEY HAVE SEVERAL CARS AND SOMETIMES DRIVEWAY ACCESS AND STREET PARKING GET PRETTY CLOGGED UP WHILE THE OTHER SIDE, OUR
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NEIGHBORS HAVE SORT OF A WIDE DRIVEWAY AND THERE'S A ROW OF TALL HEM HEMLOCKS BETWEEN OUR PROPERTIES THAT CREATES SEPARATION AND JUST SORT OF BALANCES THE STREET A BIT.BUT THE SIDE THAT, THEIR SIDE THAT WE'D BE MOVING THE DRIVEWAY TO IS ALSO SHADED BY TWO OF OUR VERY TALL, UH, SUGAR MAPLE TREES.
SO MOVING THE DRIVING DRIVEWAY TO THAT SIDE FREES UP THE SUNNY SIDE OF OUR HOUSE.
AND THIS, THIS RESULTS IN MAJOR BENEFITS TO US.
UM, WE ARE BOTH BIG GARDENERS AND HOME COOKS.
WE LIKE TO EAT A LOT OF HOMEGROWN FOOD.
UM, AND SO MOVING THE DRIVEWAY AND ALSO REMOVING WHAT WE, A TWO CAR, UM, STANDALONE GARAGE THAT WE HAVE ON THAT SIDE, WHICH IS ON BOTH PROPERTY LINES, THE REAR, DIRECTLY ON THE REAR AND THE SIDE PROPERTY LINES SORT OF FREE UP.
WE GET TO MOVE THE GARDEN TO WHERE THAT GARAGE IS BECAUSE OUR GARAGES HAPPENS TO BE THE SUNNIEST PART OF OUR LOT.
AND THEN ENCLOS, UM, OUR, OUR PORCH NEEDS TO BE REPLACED.
IT'S IN DISREPAIR AND ENCLOSING THE WRAPAROUND SECTION OF THE PORCH THAT WE SORT OF REVERSE FROM OUR CURRENT LAYOUT ALLOWS US TO GROW PLANTS AND SEEDLINGS IN THE SPRING BEFORE, UM, YOU KNOW, WE PLANT THEM IN THE GARDEN.
JUST MAKES THE GARDEN THAT MUCH, YOU KNOW, QUITE PRODUCTIVE FOR US.
SO IT'S A BIG BENEFIT FOR US THERE.
UM, OKAY THEN IN TERMS OF THE ADDITION, UM, YOU KNOW, WE LOVE OUR HOUSE.
WE'VE BEEN THERE FOR 10 YEARS AND WE'RE, WE'RE DEFINITELY, UM, YOU KNOW, WE LIKE, WE LIKE OUR HOUSE, BUT THERE HAVE BEEN LIMITATIONS WHICH HAVE ESPECIALLY COME TO THE SURFACE WITH OUR BOYS GROWING, GROWING A OLDER, UM, ON THE FIRST FLOOR.
YOU KNOW, OUR KITCHEN IS, IS PRETTY TIGHT AND SMALL.
LIKE TO OPEN OUR DISHWASHER, YOU HAVE TO MOVE THE CHAIR OUTTA THE WAY AND SOMEONE HAS TO GET UP TO FOR CLEARANCE.
UM, AND AS AN EXAMPLE, UM, WE COOKED THREE MEALS A DAY AT HOME.
AND SO A MORE COMFORTABLE COOKING SPACE IS HUGE FOR US.
UM, WE HAVE A HALF BATHROOM THAT WE CALL THE AIRPLANE BATHROOM BECAUSE IT'S SO SMALL IT, IT ONLY HAS LIKE A CAN AFFORD A MINIATURE SINK IN THERE, WHICH IS DIFFICULT FOR US.
UM, WE ALSO HAVE NO MUDROOM AREA TO, UH, STORE AND TO DRESS OUTDOOR WEAR, WHICH WOULD BE A BIG BENEFIT TO HAVE.
UM, AND THE SECOND FLOOR, UM, YOU KNOW, WE ONLY HAVE TWO BEDROOMS IN THE SECOND FLOOR, SO OUR BOYS ARE SHARING A BEDROOM.
IT WOULD BE HUGE FOR US IF THEY CAN HAVE THEIR OWN BEDROOM ON THE SAME FLOOR AS OUR BEDROOM.
UM, WHICH IS SORT OF THE BENEFIT FROM THAT.
UM, AND EVO WILL GO INTO MORE DETAIL, BUT, UM, IN TERMS OF THE BACKYARD, THE SORT OF THIRD PIECE, UM, I, YOU KNOW, HERE I JUST WANTED TO SAY ON THE POOL, OTHER THAN THE SORT OF TYPICAL BENEFITS ONE ASSOCIATES WITH HAVING A POOL, UM, WHERE THE IDEA CAME FROM FROM US REALLY WAS, YOU KNOW, IT WASN'T, WHAT WE'VE REALIZED ABOUT OUR BOYS IS THAT WATER AND SWIMMING ARE UNIQUELY, UH, QUITE REGULATING FOR THEM.
AND IT JUST, THE IDEA IT, WE, WE, IT'S, IT'S ONE THING AND IT'S HARD TO FIND THINGS THAT ARE.
AND SO THAT WAS WHERE THE IDEA GERMINATED FOR FROM US.
UM, AND THEN FROM THERE, ONCE, YOU KNOW, PART OF THIS RENOVATION, THAT'S SORT OF WHERE IT CAME FROM IN ADDITION TO THE SORT OF BENEFITS THAT WE TYPICALLY ASSOCIATE WITH THE POOL.
SO I'LL JUST LEAVE IT AT THAT.
UM, AND OBVIOUSLY IF YOU WANT HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR US SPECIFICALLY, WE'RE HAPPY TO ANSWER.
I WILL GET THIS AS FAST AS POSSIBLE.
UH, TAKE YOUR TIME WHILE YOU'RE SETTING UP.
JUST WANTED TO, UM, NOTE THAT, UM, THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT BOARD MEMBERS HERE, THEN WE'RE HERE YES.
UM, AND, UH, SO FOR THAT REASON, I THINK IF YOU COULD GENERALLY PRESENT THE PROJECT IN ITS ENTIRETY IN ITS CURRENT FORM, THAT WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL.
YOU CAN CERTAINLY REFER TO THE THINGS THAT HAVE CHANGED.
UM, BUT UH, IN SOME WAYS THEY'RE SEEING IT FOR THE FIRST TIME, WHICH I DON'T THINK IS A BAD THING.
I'M THE ARCHITECT FOR, UM, 11 EL PLACE.
AND, UH, UM, WE ARE HERE FOR THE SECOND TIME.
AND, UH, UM, THANK YOU FOR THAT, UM, INTRODUCTION.
UM, I, UM, WAS SORT OF, UH, THINKING THE SAME THING, UH, LAST, UH, UM, WEEK.
UM, I MEAN LAST MONTH, UM, WE HAD A, UH, UM, WE HAD A LONG, UM, CONVERSATION ABOUT WHAT THE PROJECT ENTAILS, AND TWO OF THE MEMBERS WERE HERE AND THE TWO OF YOU WERE, WERE NOT HERE.
UM, AND SO, UM, I WILL COVER WHAT THIS PROJECT ENTAILS.
I WILL DEFINITELY WANT TO BE MORE BRIEF THAN I WAS LAST TIME.
UM, AND, UM, IF YOU HAD A CHANCE TO, UM, GO OVER THE COVER LETTER, YOU, YOU MAY HAVE
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A BASIC IDEA OF WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO.UM, SO, UM, THE, THE PROPERTY AS YOU CAN SEE HERE, UM, IS CONSISTENT OF THE MAIN HOUSE AND L-SHAPED WRAPAROUND FRONT PORCH.
UM, IT HAS A, UM, CONCRETE PATIO ON THE SIDE THAT YOU CAN SEE HERE.
AND THEN THERE IS A, UM, SO-CALLED TWO CAR GARAGE, UM, OR BY TODAY'S STANDARDS, POSSIBLY A, UM, YOU KNOW, ONE AND A THREEQUARTER CAR GARAGE IN THE, IN THE REAR CORNER.
UM, IN ORDER TO BRING THE HOUSE TO WHERE, UM, THE HOMEOWNERS WOULD LIKE TO HAVE IT AND, AND TO HAVE IT CONSISTENT WITH THE LIFESTYLE THAT A YOUNG FAMILY WOULD HAVE IN 2026.
UM, WE ARE PROPOSING, UH, MODIFICATIONS WHICH INCLUDE, UM, A NEW ADDITION.
A NEW ADDITION, UM, CONTAINS A KITCHEN ON THE FIRST, A NEW KITCHEN ON THE FIRST FLOOR.
UM, THE SPACE OF THE CURRENT KITCHEN BECOMES A MUDROOM.
UM, ABOVE THE KITCHEN THERE IS A NEW MASTER SUITE, WHICH THEN ENABLES THE HOUSE TO GO FROM TWO BEDROOMS ON THE SECOND FLOOR TO THREE BEDROOMS ON THE SECOND FLOOR WHILE MAINTAINING THE CURRENT TWO BEDROOMS. AND THEN, UM, THERE IS A REAR DECK, UM, WHICH IS OFF OF THE KITCHEN.
AND THEN WE ARE PROPOSING, UM, A NEW SWIMMING POOL.
UM, THE, THE GARAGE BUILDING, THE ACCESSORY GARAGE BUILDING HAS BEEN REMOVED.
UM, SO, UM, IF YOU WOULD GO THROUGH THE, UM, UM, YOU KNOW, OTHER DRAWINGS, YOU WOULD SEE THIS IN MORE DETAIL.
YOU SEE THAT THIS IS THE DINING ROOM, LIVING ROOM, CENTER HALL, EXISTING KITCHEN, WHICH BECOMES A NEW KITCHEN, A MUD ROOM, A NEW DECK.
AND THEN, UM, THE CURRENT GARAGE, UM, FULFILLS CERTAIN STORAGE FUNCTIONS, WHICH ARE THEN, UH, UH, DIVIDED, UM, BETWEEN, UM, A NEW SHED AND ALSO THE NEW BASEMENT BELOW THE KITCHEN.
I'M GOING TO, UM, TAKE A SHORT BREAK.
AND SO, UM, UH, WE THEN WE HAVE A, UM, WE HAVE THE, UM, SECOND FLOOR, WHICH SHOWS HOW WE GO FROM TWO BEDROOMS TO THREE BEDROOMS. THEN WE HAVE THE ATTIC SPACE, WHICH IS CURRENTLY ILLEGAL FINISHED ATTIC, WHICH HAS THREE ROOMS, WHICH WE ARE BASICALLY MAINTAINING, BUT AT THE SAME TIME WE'RE ADDING A BATHROOM AND WE ARE RAISING SOME OF THE CEILING HEIGHTS BY ADDING DORMERS.
AND AS A RESULT, WE'RE INCREASING THE FAR NUMBER FOR THE HOUSE BECAUSE WE'RE PICKING UP ADDITIONAL SQUARE FOOTAGE IN THE ATTIC.
AND OF COURSE, WE'RE PICKING UP ADDITIONAL SQUARE FOOTAGE WITH THE ADDITION.
UM, IF YOU, UM, THERE'S ANOTHER CHANGE WHICH IS IMPORTANT, WHICH IS THAT THE CURRENT WRAPAROUND PORCH IS BEING REVERSED AND PART OF IT IS BEING ENCLOSED.
IN OTHER WORDS, UM, FOR THE REASONS THAT, UM, MR. TARSI MENTIONED, WE WOULD LIKE TO MOVE THE DRIVEWAY FROM ONE SIDE OF THE HOUSE TO THE NEXT SIDE OF, TO THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE HOUSE, WHILE STILL HAVING A WRAPAROUND PORCH.
BUT PART OF IT IS BEING ENCLOSED SO THAT IT COULD BE, UM, IT COULD BECOME A THREE SEASON ROOM.
AND THEN IN THIS ELEVATION YOU CAN SEE THERE IS THE REAR ADDITION WITH THE KITCHEN AND THE BEDROOM ABOVE.
AND HERE YOU CAN SEE THE RENDERING OF THE BACK OF THE HOUSE WITH THE, UM, A PROPOSED DECK AND THE PROPOSED SWIMMING POOL.
LAST TIME, UM, THE APPLICATION LOOKED DIFFERENT, UM, UH, BECAUSE, UM, WELL, LET ME GO TO, INTO THAT IN A SECOND.
UH, HERE WE HAVE THE, UM, SIDE ELEVATIONS FOR THE,
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FOR THE PROPOSED ADDITION.SO YOU CAN SEE THAT, UM, WE'RE ADDING THIS PORTION HERE.
AND ON THE OTHER SIDE YOU, YOU CAN SEE THE ADDITION ON THIS SIDE.
UM, SO YOU, IT SORT OF INDICATED HERE WHERE IT SAYS ADDITION, AND HERE IT SAYS ADDITION AS WELL.
UM, AND I'M HAPPY TO GO BACK INTO IT AND, YOU KNOW, TAKE MORE TIME.
UM, THIS PAGE, UM, SHOWS THE SORT OF THE LANDSCAPE OF THE RELEVANT BLOCK, RIGHT? SO THIS IS, UM, ELM PLACE, THIS IS FRAZIER PLACE.
AND THE, UM, AND THESE TWO BLOCKS HAVE A UNIQUE VILLAGE, UM, CHARACTER, UH, BECAUSE THESE HOUSES GO BACK TO 19 HUNDREDS AND THEY WERE BUILT, UM, IN THE SORT OF ORIGINAL PERIOD STYLE CLOSE TO EACH OTHER.
UM, AND HAVING SOME, UH, UM, CHARACTERISTICS THAT ARE REPEATED AMONGST ALL OF THESE HOUSES, SUCH AS THE LOCATIONS OF DRIVEWAYS, THE FRONT SETBACKS, THE LOCATION OF THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURES, ET CETERA.
UM, THERE IS ALSO A CERTAIN DENSITY IN TERMS OF DEVELOPMENTAL COVERAGE AND IN TERMS OF FAR, AND WE HAVE TRIED TO CAPTURE THIS BY, UM, PROVIDING EVEN MORE INFORMATION THAN WE DID LAST TIME SO THAT YOU CAN SEE, UM, HOW 11 ELM PLAYS IS SITUATED IN TERMS IN, IN COMPARISON TO OTHER PROPERTIES ON THESE TWO BLOCKS.
AND, UM, I'M SHOWING BOTH THE EXISTING NUMBERS FOR 11 L PLACE AND THE PROPOSED NUMBERS FOR 11 L PLACE.
SO, UM, IF THERE ARE QUESTIONS, I CAN AGAIN GO BACK TO THAT.
UM, SO, UM, AND THEN, UM, THIS PAGE IS DEVOTED ENTIRELY TO THE IDEA OF HAVING AN ENCLOSED PORCH.
SOME PEOPLE MIGHT FIND, MIGHT FIND IT SOMEWHAT UNUSUAL THAT WE SHOULD BE PROPOSING A FRONT PORCH WITH WHICH IS ENCLOSED.
THIS IS A PAGE I HAD LAST TIME AND IT JUST ILLUSTRATES NUMBER OF HOUSES IN THE VILLAGE THAT ACTUALLY DO HAVE ENCLOSED PORCHES.
SOME OF THEM ARE ON ELM OR FRAZIER, OTHERS ARE IN OTHER HISTORIC PARTS OF THE VILLAGE.
UM, SO THAT HELPS US TO ILLUSTRATE THAT.
UM, THIS IDEA ACTUALLY IS SOMETHING THAT, UM, IS NOT UNCOMMON IN THIS, UM, UH, TYPE AND AGE OF THE HOUSE.
UM, I, UM, YOU KNOW, I'M SORT OF OF TWO MINDS IN TERMS OF, UM, GOING BACK TO WHAT WE DID LAST TIME, BUT I THINK IT'S PROBABLY USEFUL IF I BRIEFLY EXPLAINED THAT LAST TIME WE WERE ASKING FOR, UM, 12 VARIANCES.
AND, UM, BEING COGNIZANT AND MINDFUL OF THE, THE FEEDBACK THAT WE RECEIVED, WE HAVE, UH, REDUCED THE NUMBER OF VARIANCES TO SEVEN AND IN ADDITION, EVERY ONE OF THOSE VARIANCES IS NOW A LESSER OR A SMALLER VARIANCE.
WE'RE ASKING FOR LESS THAN WE ASK BEFORE.
UM, SO THE VARIANCES THAT WE ENTIRELY GAVE UP ON ARE, UH, LEMME START WITH THAT, ARE THE SIDE YARD FOR THE ENCLOSED PORCH.
WE MADE THE ENCLOSED PORCH SMALLER SO THAT THE SIDE YARD IS OBSERVED AS REQUIRED.
UM, WE, UM, GAVE UP ON THE POOL SHED, SO WE DO NOT HAVE THE VARIANCE FOR THE, UM, SIDE YARD.
UM, WE HAVE DECREASED THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE THIRD FLOOR TO BE LESS THAN 50% OF THE SECOND FLOOR.
AND THEREFORE WE ARE NOT ASKING FOR A VARIANCE FOR THREE STORIES ANYMORE.
WE ARE BACK TO TWO AND A HALF STORIES.
UH, WE HAVE, UM, REMOVED STRUCTURES AND MADE STRUCTURES SMALLER SO THAT WE ARE NO LONGER ASKING FOR A BUILDING COVERAGE VARIANCE.
AND WE HAVE MADE THE POOL SMALLER SO THAT IT COMPLIES WITH THE REQUIREMENT AND WE NO LONGER HAVE THE VARIANCE FOR THE SIZE OF THE POOL.
UM, OF THE SEVEN REMAINING VARIANCES, THEY KIND OF FALL INTO TWO CATEGORIES.
UM, ONE OF THEM IS, UH, THE FIRST CATEGORY ARE THREE VARIANCES, WHICH, UM, ARE VERY CONTEXTUAL IN COMPARISON TO OTHER PROPERTIES.
SO, UM, FOR EXAMPLE, WE ARE ASKING FOR A VARIANCE FOR THE FRONT PORCH SETBACK.
UM, THIS IS BECAUSE WE ARE CHANGING THE FRONT PORCH, AND EVEN THOUGH WE ARE NOT CHANGING THE FRONT SETBACKS, THE FACT THAT WE'RE REMOVING
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THE WRAPAROUND ON THE LE ON THE LEFT SIDE ON THE WEST SIDE AND WRAPPING THE PORCH ON THE RIGHT SIDE, THIS MEANS WE NEED THE VARIANCE TO MAINTAIN THAT SAME FRONT PORCH.UM, AND UM, I JUST ALSO WANT TO POINT OUT THAT THE LENGTH OF THE EXISTING FRONT PORCH AND THE NEW FRONT PORCH IS ALMOST THE SAME.
THE NEW FRONT PORCH IS THREE FEET LONGER THAN THE OLD FRONT PORCH, SO THERE'S A VERY, YOU KNOW, IT'S ALMOST THE SAME.
UM, THEN THERE IS THE, UM, PARKING, UM, WAS IN THE SIDE YARD.
SO, UM, WE ARE IN NEED OF A VARIANCE FOR PARKING IN THE SIDE YARD.
HOWEVER, THE REALITY IS, WAIT, SHOULD I TALK ONE SECOND? OKAY.
SO WHAT'S HAPPENING IS THERE CURRENTLY IS PARKING IN THE SIDE YARD.
AND SO WE ARE SORT OF ASKING TO HAVE SOMETHING WHICH WE ALREADY HAVE, BUT WE'RE ASKING FOR IT TO BE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE HOUSE.
UM, IF YOU LOOK AT, UM, THIS SCHEMATIC, YOU WILL SEE THAT BY DEFAULT ALL OF THESE HOUSES HAVE PARKING IN THE SIDE YARD, WITH VERY RARE EXCEPTIONS BECAUSE THIS WAS JUST A PRAGMATIC, RATIONAL WAY FOR BUILDERS TO ORGANIZE THESE PROPERTIES.
THEY WOULD PUT THE GARAGE IN THE CORNER IN THE BACK, AND THEN THEY WOULD HAVE, UM, PARKING IN THE SIDE YARD BECAUSE THEN THEY WOULD GO STRAIGHT FOR THAT GARAGE.
SO THAT IS ALSO A VARIANCE WE REQUIRE, WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE.
AND THEN, UH, WE, THERE'S A VARIANCE FOR THE AMOUNT OF PAVING WITHIN THE REQUIRED YARD.
HOWEVER, UM, WHAT'S ACTUALLY HAPPENING IS, UM, EVEN THOUGH WE NEED A VARIANCE FOR THE PAVING, WE ACTUALLY END UP WITH LESS PAVING IN THE SIDE YARD THAN CURRENTLY EXISTS BECAUSE CURRENTLY THIS PROPERTY HAS 270, CURRENTLY THERE IS 185 SQUARE FEET OF, UH, UM, EXISTING PAVING IN THE SIDE YARDS, AND WE ARE ASKING FOR 140 SQUARE FEET.
SO WE'RE ACTUALLY DECREASING THE NON-COMPLIANCE.
SO THESE ARE THE THREE VARIANCES.
AND THEN THERE ARE FOUR OTHER VARIANCES, WHICH ARE SORT OF, UH, UM, RELATED TO SPECIFIC, UH, UH, UM, CHANGES AND DESIGN DECISIONS, UH, WHICH IS, UH, UM, THE FAR, UH, THE FLUOR AREA RATIO VARIANCE.
UH, AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, WE ARE STILL ASKING FOR THIS VARIANCE.
HOWEVER, WE, UM, DECREASED THE, THE EXTENT OF THE VARIANCE BY ABOUT 30%.
UM, SO, UH, WE WENT FROM 736 SQUARE FEET OVER, UM, THE, UM, REQUIRED NUMBER TO 465 SQUARE FEET OVER THE REQUIRED NUMBER.
AND WE DID THAT BY, UM, HAVING A SMALLER ENCLOSED PORCH, HAVING A SMALLER SHED AND HAVING A SMALLER INCREASE OF THE NEW SQUARE FOOTAGE IN, IN THE ATTIC.
UM, WE HAVE, UH, DECREASED THE, UM, DEVELOPMENTAL COVERAGE AND WE ENTIRELY ELIMINATED THE, UM, STONE PATIO, WHICH WE HAD PREVIOUSLY.
SO WE HAVE THE DECK AND WE HAVE THE POOL AND, UM, THE STONE PATIO, WHICH PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED A TRANSITION FROM THE DECK INTO THE POOL IS JUST GONE.
UM, AND THEN, UH, WE HAVE TWO MORE VARIANCES WHICH HAVE TO DO WITH THE POOL, AND THOSE ARE THE, UM, REAR SETBACK AND THE SITE SETBACK FOR THE POOL.
UM, THOSE ARE REQUIRED TO BE 20 FEET.
UM, WHEN WE PRESENTED THE PROJECT LAST MONTH, UM, THE POOL WAS MUCH CLOSER TO THE, UH, BACK PROPERTY LINE.
IT WAS SEVEN FEET AWAY AND NOW IT'S 17 FEET AWAY, AND IT WAS SEVEN OR EIGHT FEET FROM THE SEVEN SIDELINE, WHICH IS ALSO THE NEIGHBOR'S GARAGE, AND NOW IT'S ALMOST 17 FEET FROM THERE.
SO THE, UM, THE EXTENT OF THE VARIANCE HAS BEEN DIMINISHED.
[00:35:03]
I, UH, WOULD LIKE TO ALSO, UM, ADDRESS COUPLE OF QUESTIONS THAT, UM, CAME UP IN CONVERSATION LAST MONTH.UM, ONE OF THEM WAS IF THERE IS ANOTHER SWIMMING POOL ON THE BLOCK, AND WE SAID NO, THERE ISN'T.
UM, HOWEVER, UM, THAT THE REALITY IS THAT, UM, IF YOU GO TO THE END OF THE BLOCK AND UH, UM, JUST CROSS THE AQU DOCK, THERE IS A POOL ON A PROPERTY ON EDGAR'S LANE, AND THERE'S ANOTHER POOL ON EDGAR'S LANE, LIKE, SORT OF ACROSS THE STREET.
SO, UM, YOU KNOW, WE, WE HAD A LIST OF, YOU KNOW, ABOUT A DOZEN AND A HALF POOLS THAT SORT OF HAPPENED IN THE AREA, AND SOME OF THEM ARE ACTUALLY VERY CLOSE TO FRAZIER AND EDGAR'S.
UM, I ALSO WOULD LIKE TO BRIEFLY REMARK ON, UM, A COMMENT THAT WE GOT LAST TIME.
UM, WHEN I WAS PRESENTING LAST TIME, I SAID THAT TYPICALLY THE PROPERTIES IN THIS AREA REQUIRE VARIANCES BECAUSE, UM, THEY WERE BUILT BEFORE THE CURRENT ZONING CODE WAS ENACTED, AND THAT'S WHY THEY TEND TO BE TRULY NON-COMPLIANT.
UM, ONE OF THE, UM, NEIGHBORS FROM 16 FRAZIER, UM, CAME UP TO SPEAK AND SAID THAT THEY HAVE DONE WORK ON THEIR PROPERTY AND DID NOT REQUIRE ANY VARIANCES.
SO, UM, I AM NOT FAMILIAR WITH THAT PROJECT, BUT I DO WANT TO POINT OUT THAT THAT PARTICULAR, UH, LOT HAPPENS TO BE 10,000 SQUARE FEET.
SO IT'S AN OVERSIZED LOT FOR THIS PARTICULAR ZONE.
AND EVEN THEN IT IS NOT COMPLIANT.
THE ONE SIDE OF THE HOUSE IS EXTREMELY CLOSE, PROBABLY TWO, THREE FEET FROM THE PROPERTY LINE.
IT HAS A, UH, PARKING IN THE, UM, SIDE YARD, UH, SIDE LOT, I MEAN SIDE YARD.
IT HAS A PAVING IN THE SIDE YARD THAT'S ALL ASPHALT.
IT HAS A GARAGE, WHICH IS IN THE REAR END SIDE YARD, AND THERE'S A PATIO WHICH IS ALSO IN THE REAR SIDE YARD.
SO, UM, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER WORK THEY WERE ABLE TO DO THAT WAS COMPLIANT, UM, THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, IS GREAT.
BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THESE PROPERTIES ARE FULLY COMPLIANT WITH THE CURRENT CODE, JUST BY THE VIRTUE OF, OF SORT OF HAVING BEEN BEEN PUT TOGETHER IN 19 HUNDREDS.
WERE THE, AND SINCE THEN, THE, UM, THE POOL HAD THE, UM, THE, THE CODE HAS CHANGED DRAMATICALLY.
UM, SO IN CONCLUSION, I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT ANOTHER QUESTION THAT CAME UP, UM, LAST TIME WAS WHETHER WE TRIED TO DESIGN THIS PROJECT TO CODE AND I SAID NO, WHICH WAS A VERY UN DIPLOMATIC ANSWER.
AND UH, UM, AND IF I WAS A PROPER ATTORNEY, I WOULDN'T SAY THAT.
BUT, UM, THERE, THE REASON I SAID THAT, BECAUSE I WAS HONESTLY TRYING TO ONE MORE
I WAS HONESTLY TRYING TO GET ACROSS THE IDEA THAT WHEN WE DESIGNED THE PROJECT, WE BELIEVED WE WERE BEING CONTEXTUAL AND WE WERE BEING RESPONSIBLE.
WE WERE NOT BRINGING IN ANYTHING THAT WOULD AFFECT THE CHARACTER OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD IN A DETRIMENTAL WAY.
AND WE HAVE CHANGED ASPECTS OF THE PROJECT TO COME MUCH CLOSER TO WHAT THE CURRENT CODE REQUIREMENTS ARE AND, UH, UM, WE'RE OBVIOUSLY LOOKING AT THE BALANCE BETWEEN THE PROPOSED DESIGN AND THE CURRENT HASTINGS CODE AND ALSO THE BALANCE BETWEEN THE CURRENT HASTINGS CODE AND THE CHARACTER OF THIS VERY PARTICULAR AREA AND THE BALANCE BETWEEN THIS PARTICULAR AREA AND THIS PARTICULAR HOUSE.
SO WE HOPE THAT IN THIS NEW ITERATION WE HAVE COME TO THE POINT WHERE WE MANAGE TO BALANCE THE VARIOUS ASPECTS AND THAT YOU WILL AGREE
ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
UM, I GUESS I I WILL SAY THAT, UM, WE UH, DEFINITELY RECOGNIZE THAT YOU GUYS, UM, TOOK LAST MONTH TO HEART THAT YOU CAME BACK WITH SIGNIFICANT CHANGES.
UM, HAVING, HAVING SAID THAT, UM, WE, UH, WE'RE, WE'RE SORT OF LOOKING AT IT AS IF FOR THE FIRST TIME, UM, OBVIOUSLY PART OF THIS IS LOOKING AT ALTERNATES AND NOW THROUGH THE TWO MONTHS WE'VE SEEN A LOT OF ALTERNATES.
UM, BUT, YOU KNOW, UH, WE'RE NEITHER GOING TO, UH, PENALIZE YOU NOR REWARD
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YOU FOR COMING IN WITH 12 VARIANCES FIRST AND COMING BACK WITH SEVEN BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD BE A VERY POPULAR STRATEGY, COME IN AND ASK FOR THE MOON AND THEN COME BACK AND ASK FOR HALF THE MOON.UM, SO AGAIN, I'M NOT ACCUSING YOU OF DOING THAT, I'M JUST SAYING WITHOUT BIAS, WE'RE GONNA LOOK AT THESE, UM, ON THEIR OWN MERITS, BUT WE DO RECOGNIZE THAT RELATIVE TO LAST MONTH, UM, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF CHANGES.
UM, I, UH, I DON'T KNOW, I'M TALKING TO THE FELLOW BOARD MEMBERS HERE WHETHER WE SHOULD RE UH, GROUP THESE OR TALK ABOUT 'EM.
ANYWAY, I, WHAT I WAS GONNA ASSESS IS THAT WE JUST GO THROUGH THEM IN ORDER NOW.
UH, AND THEN I THINK MAYBE SOME OF THE GROUPINGS WILL MAKE THEMSELVES APPARENT.
SO ANY QUESTIONS ON THE FIRST VARIANCE? PAVING IN A REQUIRED YARD? I HAD A QUESTION ABOUT THAT.
UH, UM, PAVING IN A REQUIRED YARD, YOU HAD AN EXISTING CONDITION, I BELIEVE ON THE DRAWINGS, IT'S 147 SQUARE FEET.
IS EXISTING PAVED OR CONCRETE IN THE SIDE YARD, IS THAT RIGHT? SO IT, THAT'S EXISTING CONDITION.
IT INCLUDES THIS PORTION OF THE SIDE YARD AND IT INCLUDES THE, UM, FRONT YARD AND THE FRONT.
SO WITH THOSE TOGETHER, THAT'S 38 IN THE FRONT, 1 47 OF THE SIDE, THOSE ARE ENTIRELY EXISTING NONCONFORMING CONDITIONS? CORRECT.
SO THEN THE NEW PROPOSED PAVED AREA WOULD INCLUDE, WOULD INCLUDE THE FRONT, WHICH IS SLIGHTLY WIDENED BECAUSE THE SORT OF THE CURRENT WALKWAY IS DISPROPORTIONATE TO THE FRONT STEP, SO IT'S SLIGHTLY WIDENED.
AND THEN, UM, IT IS A, UH, UM, THE BACK HALF OF THE POOL, THE BASICALLY THE BACK HALF OF THE POOL? CORRECT.
AND THE, THE, THE FRONT GOES FROM A 38 TO 58? YES.
UM, THE BACK HALF OF THE POOL IS THE FOUR 50 IS THE TOTAL FOR THE POOL? YES.
WHAT, WHAT IS THE NON-CONFORMING AREA IN THE REAR YARD? I WILL, UM, IT DOES VISUALLY THE HALF, BUT WE'LL SEE
UM, IT SAYS POOL CURB AND THE FRONT WALKWAY.
SO THE 140 MINUS 58 IS THE POOL CURB.
SO IT'S ABOUT, UH, 90 SQUARE, 80 OR 90 SQUARE FEET.
AND IT'S JUST THE, THE CURB AREA, THE POOL ITSELF? THAT'S CORRECT.
NOT BEING PAID, NOT THE POOL ITSELF, IT'S THE CURBING AROUND THE POOL.
BECAUSE THE WATER DOESN'T COUNT.
THAT'S NO WATER DOESN'T COUNT.
THAT'S, I THINK THAT'S THE PART THAT I WASN'T QUITE.
SO IN, IN AGGREGATE IT IS LESS THAN THE 147, CORRECT? IN THE CURRENT, YES, THAT'S IT.
OH, I'M SORRY, 180 5 IS THE CURRENT YES, YES.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT THE PAVING IN REQUIRED YARDS? I AM GONNA GROUP THE NEXT TWO, THE TWO POOL SETBACKS.
ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THOSE? I, I HAVE A QUESTION.
WHAT WOULD THE SI WHAT WOULD THE LENGTH AND WIDTH OF THE POOL BE IF YOU DIDN'T GET ANY VARIANCES FOR THE POOL? WHAT SIZE WOULD THE POOL BE IF YOU DIDN'T GET ANY VARIANCES? UM, SO, UM, UM, WELL THE, THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE POOL, 450 SQUARE FEET IS THE ALLOWED, UM, SQUARE FOOTAGE.
AND THEN, UM, IF WE, UM, IF WE WERE TRYING TO AVOID A SETBACKS, RIGHT? SO WE WOULD HAVE TO TAKE, THIS IS A 75 FEET WIDE LOT, SO WE WOULD HAVE TO TAKE 20 FEET FROM THIS SIDE AND 20 FEET FROM THAT SIDE.
SO THEN THE LENGTH OF THE POOL WOULD BE, UM, 35 FEET.
UM, AND IT'S, AND AND IT'S 40 NOW, IT'S NO, IN THE PROPOSED PLAN, IT'S ACTUALLY, UM, BECAUSE YOU, I I'M ASKING BECAUSE LAST TIME WE TALKED ABOUT THE DESIRE FOR A CERTAIN LENGTH OF PULL.
AND THE SETBACKS LOOK LIKE, SO WE, IT WAS 3.4, WE WENT FROM UM, UH, 37 AND A HALF FEET TO 35 FEET.
AND UH, UM, HOWEVER, WHAT HAPPENS IS THE POOL IS SOMEWHAT SHIFTED TO THE WEST.
SO THERE IS 16.7 FEET HERE AND THEN THERE'S A LONGER DIMENSION ON THE OTHER SIDE.
SO THE VARIANCE YOU NEED IS FOR THE YES.
THE, SO IF THE POOL SHIFTED OVER, YOU WOULDN'T NEED THAT VARIANCE? YES.
WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IS IF WE SHIFTED IT OVER, WE WOULD LOSE SPACE FROM THE AREA THAT WE ARE TRYING TO EARMARK FOR THE VEGETABLE GARDEN.
AND WHAT'S THE WIDTH, WHAT'S SETTING THE WIDTH
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OF THE VEGETABLE GARDEN? UM, IS THAT BASED ON RAISED BEDS OR WHAT'S THE DESIRE THERE? JUST BECAUSE THAT'S A VARIANCE THAT SEEMS AVOIDABLE IF YOU SHIFTED THE POOL? WELL THE, UM, WHERE WE ARE TRYING TO MAXIMIZE THAT AREA TO MAKE IT AS, AS LARGE AS POSSIBLE.AND, UM, SINCE THIS SIDE IS SHADY AND DOES NOT HAVE ANY SPECIFIC PURPOSE TO IT, YOU KNOW, WE UM, UM, WE HAVE SORT OF TILTED THAT BALANCE TOWARDS THE POOL BEING SHIFTED TOWARDS THE WEST AND, AND KEEPING THIS SOUTHERN AND EASTERN PART OF THE PROPERTY AVAILABLE FOR THE VEGETABLE GARDEN.
BUT IS THE DESIRE, IS THE, IS THERE A SET WIDTH OF THAT VEGETABLE GARDEN THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO GET OR YOU'RE JUST TRYING TO MAXIMIZE IT? WE'RE TRYING TO MAXIMIZE IT.
WE HAVE ACTUALLY, WE SORT OF HAD IT BIGGER.
THAT'S WHY THAT POOL POOL WAS EVEN FURTHER TO THE WEST IN THE PREVIOUS ITERATION BECAUSE WE ARE JUST, ARE TRYING TO MAKE IT AS LARGE AS POSSIBLE AND UH, UM, AND THERE IS NO SET DIMENSION OTHER TRYING TO MAKE IT AS LARGE AS POSSIBLE.
BUT THAT, THAT THREE POINT, THAT'S THE, THAT'S VARIANCE TWO RIGHT GUYS? YES.
SO THAT VARIANCE COULD GO AWAY COMPLETELY IF YOU SHIFTED THE POOL OVER 3.4 FEET, YOU COULD STILL GET THE SAME SIZE POOL? YES.
AND YOU WOULD HAVE A SMALLER VEGETABLE GARDEN.
WOULD THAT MEAN THAT YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO HAVE RAISED BEDS AND WALKING PADS AS SET? YES, WE, WE WOULD LOSE THE SPACE THAT THIS, I'M JUST TRYING TO, I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE TRADE OFF DECISION IS THERE BECAUSE THAT VARIANCE DOESN'T NEED TO BE, THE ONLY POINT I WANTED TO MAKE IS JUST THAT LIKE, IT SORT OF LOOKS LIKE ON THIS THAT YOU JUST PUT A
THERE HAS TO BE SOME AREA BETWEEN JUST DIVISION.
SO YEAH, ESSENTIALLY ARE YOU TRYING TO GET A ROW OF TWO RAISED BEDS AND WALKING IN BETWEEN? WELL, I MEAN, I, I WE'RE NOT, I I THINK WE'RE JUST TRYING TO MAKE IT SO THAT IT'S NOT TOO NARROW SO THAT WE CAN HAVE IT THE SIZE THAT WE WANT.
IT'S NOT SO MUCH ABOUT, 'CAUSE YOU CAN SIZE RAISE BEDS ANY WIDTH THAT YOU WANT REALLY.
UM, SO I, I THINK THAT THE GARDEN LOOKS WIDER ON THIS THAN IT CAN BE EVEN WITH THIS POOL, SIMPLY BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT THERE JUST NEEDS TO BE SOME SPACE BETWEEN THE TWO RIGHT NEXT TO THE POOL.
AND THEN THE, SORRY IF I COULD, YOU ASKED A QUESTION THAT MAYBE WAS ANSWERED, BUT I WANNA MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND THE, THE LENGTH OF THE POOL, 35 FEET OF THE POOL.
IF IT WERE 31.4 FEET, UM, WOULD THAT STILL WORK AS A POOL, WHICH IS ANOTHER WAY TO ACHIEVE THE SAME THING BY SIMPLY REDUCING THE, THE SIZE OF THE POOL? YES.
MAINTAINING THE SAME AREA FOR THE VEGETABLE GARDEN AND NOT REQUIRING THAT PARTICULAR VARIANCE.
SO THE OBJECTIVE PART OF THE DESIRE FOR HAVING THE POOL IS TO ACTUALLY HAVE A LAP LANE AND UH, UM, TYPICALLY 35 FEET IS A MINIMUM DIMENSION, WHICH IS RECOMMENDED FOR A LAP SWIMMING.
IT SORT OF GOES UP FROM THERE.
UM, SO THIS IS WHY WE ARE SORT OF, YOU KNOW, WE WENT DOWN FROM 37 AND A HALF TO 35 FEET, BUT ONCE YOU GO BELOW 35 FEET, THE LAP SWIMMING JUST CANNOT HAPPEN BECAUSE IT'S TOO SHORT TO SWIM AND TURN AND GO BACK AND FORTH.
UM, SO THAT IT IS JUST A SORT OF A GENERAL, YOU KNOW, CONCEPT OF A LAP LANE.
IT SHOULD BE AT LEAST 35 FEET.
DO YOU HAVE ANY PHOTOS OF THE BACKYARD FACING TO THE WEST, TO THE NEIGHBOR'S GARAGE SO THE BOARD CAN ASSESS WHAT THE POTENTIAL VISUAL IMPACTS MIGHT BE AS A RESULT OF THAT SETBACK VARIANCE.
YOU'RE ASKING FOR A, UM, PICTURE FACING THE WEST OR FACING THE BACK, BUT YEAH, TO THE NEIGHBOR TO THE LEFT ON THIS DIAGRAM, UM, IT LOOKS LIKE THIS PROPERTY BUTTS UP AGAINST A ONE AND A HALF STORY GARAGE.
YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD THREE BE THE MOST IMPACT NEIGHBOR BY THE VARIANCE IF GRANTED, I WAS JUST CURIOUS IF YOU HAVE A PHOTO THAT COULD ALLOW THE BOARD TO MAYBE ASSESS THE VISUAL IMPACTS AS IT RELATES.
THIS IS THE PHOTO WHICH SHOWS HOW THAT YARD LOOKS LIKE.
UM, AND THE, THE POOL AREA HAPPENS HERE, RIGHT? SO THAT'S THE GARAGE, THAT'S THE NEIGHBOR.
THERE'S THE NEIGHBOR'S GARAGE, YES.
SO THE POOL, IT APPEARS IT WOULD BE RELATIVELY SCREENED BY THE EXISTING SHRUBBERY IN THE GARAGE.
IN FACT, WHAT HAPPENS IS THERE IS ANOTHER GARAGE, WHICH IS ON THE OTHER SIDE.
THIS IS, THIS IS THE HOMEOWNER'S GARAGE BEHIND IT.
THERE IS ANOTHER GARAGE, WHICH IS, WHICH BELONGS TO THE OTHER NEIGHBORS.
UM, SO WE ARE UM, HERE AND THIS IS ONE GARAGE WHICH BELONGS TO 600 BROADWAY AND HERE'S ANOTHER GARAGE THAT BELONGS TO 15 ELM.
SO OUR INITIAL HUNCH WAS TO SIMPLY PLACE THE POOL BETWEEN THESE TWO GARAGES,
[00:50:01]
BUT BECAUSE THE SETBACKS WERE SO, YOU KNOW, FAR FROM WHAT THE CODE IS CALLING FOR, WE HAVE NOW SHIFTED THE POOL CLOSER TO THE HOUSE AND UH, UM, BUT IT IS STILL, THERE IS STILL TWO GARAGES, ONE ON EITHER SIDE THAT BASICALLY FRAMED THIS VIEW AND UH, YOU CAN GET A SENSE OF IT, UM, BY LOOKING AT THESE PICTURES.SO, UM, SO THE IMPACT ON THE NEIGHBORS IS REALLY HEAVILY MITIGATED BY THE FACT THAT THEY EACH HAVE A GARAGE THERE.
AND THEN, UM, WE OF COURSE ARE PLANNING TO ERECT A FULL SIX FOOT FENCE AGAINST THE, THE OTHER NEIGHBOR AND THAT, UM, CREATES ALMOST LIKE A U-SHAPED BRACKET OR AN ENCLOSURE FOR THE POOL.
UM, THAT'S HELPFUL, THANK YOU.
AND IS THE SETBACK VARIANCE FROM THE JOG, 'CAUSE IT JOGS THE, WHERE'S THE, CAN WE JUST GO BACK TO THE YES.
SO, UM, IT'S FROM THE JOG, RIGHT? OR FROM THE, SO THE, UM, SO THE PROPERTY LINE IS WHAT YOU SEE HERE IN THE RED LINE.
THE JOG HAPPENS BECAUSE THERE IS THIS ROW OF MATURE CEDARS WHICH IS PLANTED BETWEEN THESE TWO PROPERTIES.
AND WE WOULD LIKE TO NOT CHANGE THAT AFFECT THAT DIMINISH THAT IN ANY WAY.
AND THAT'S WHY YOU SEE THE JOG IF WE, IF WE FENCE, IF IT'S, THAT'S BASICALLY THE FENCE AND UH, UM, IT'S, YEAH, THE PROPERTY IS RECTANGULAR, YES, THE PROPERTY IS A RECTANGLE AND UH, UM, YOU CAN SORT OF GET A BETTER SENSE OF IT.
IF YOU LOOK AT THIS PARTICULAR SCHEMATIC HERE, HERE YOU CAN SEE THE CEDARS, THIS IS THE PLANTING PLAN.
AND SO YOU CAN SEE THAT, UM, UM, YEAH, I MEAN AT THIS POINT THERE'S NO POINT IN ME REFERRING TO THE PREVIOUS OBLIGATION, BUT BASICALLY THE, THE POOL WAS SITUATED BETWEEN THIS GARAGE AND THAT GARAGE AND UP AGAINST THE BACK FENCE, WHICH SEEMED LOGICAL BUT DOES NOT COMPLY WITH THE CODE.
AND THAT'S WHY WE SHIFTED IT TOWARDS THE HOUSE.
WE ALSO HAVE A LIMITATION AT THE HOUSE BECAUSE THE POOL HAS TO BE NO MORE THAN FIVE FEET FROM THE HOUSE AND OBVIOUSLY IT WOULD NOT BE COMFORTABLE IF IT WAS THAT CLOSE.
SO WE HAVE THE POOL AT LIKE FIVE FOOT NINE FROM THE HOUSE.
UM, AND THEN IT'S JUST A QUESTION OF BASICALLY HAVING A SIZE THAT CAN BE USED FOR LAP SWIMMING, CAN BE USED FOR CHILDREN'S PLAY AND JUST NOT MAKING IT, YOU KNOW, WE ARE NOT TRYING TO DO LIKE A HOT TUB OR A JACUZZI.
WE'RE TRYING TO HAVE A WORKING POOL AND UM, SO WE FEEL THAT UM, YOU KNOW, HAVING 16.7 FEET PLUS AN ENTIRE GARAGE WALL IS A SOLID SEPARATION FROM THE NEIGHBORS.
AND UH, UM, AND THEN ACTUALLY HERE'S THE DIMENSION, BRETT, YOU ARE ASKING FOR THAT IS A 23.4, WHICH IS THE, UM, WHICH IS SORT OF THE, UM, VEGETABLE GARAGE MINUS MAYBE A COUPLE OF FEET FOR THE CURB.
UH, BUT BASICALLY THE VEGETABLE GARAGE ENDS UP BEING ROUGHLY ABOUT 21 FEET OR SO.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON THE EITHER OF THE POOL, UH, VARIANCES? ALRIGHT, MOVING ON TO FAR.
UM, COULD YOU, YOU, COULD YOU JUST ZOOM INTO THE CHART, UH, THAT YOU HAD ON THE RELATIVE FAR IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD? OKAY.
THE ONE YOU HAD ON THE, LET ME DO THAT.
SO WE SORT OF PREPARED THIS TO KIND OF ILLUSTRATE, UH, JUST A SORT OF A GENERAL COMMON SENSE THAT THIS HOUSE IN FACT IS SIMILAR IN SIZE TO OTHER HOUSES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
SO THIS IS THE CHART WITH THE FAR AND AS YOU CAN SEE RIGHT NOW, THE FAR FOR THIS HOUSE IS ON THE BOTTOM END OF, OF THE ENTIRE CHART.
AND BY INCREASING IT, WE ARE MOVING IT UP TO SORT OF AN AVERAGE SIZE OF THE HOUSE.
SO AGAIN, I I, I JUST UM, WANNA MAKE THE POINT I MADE EARLIER, UH, BECAUSE I THINK YOUR CHART ACTUALLY REINFORCES IT.
SO WHAT I SAID LAST TIME WAS THAT, UM, A LOT OF TIMES WE GIVE VARIANCE HERE BECAUSE LOTS ARE UNDERSIZED, RIGHT? SO I UNDERSTAND THE POINT YOU MADE A FEW MINUTES AGO ABOUT 16, UH, 16 FRAZIER, 16 FRAZIER.
IT HAD NONCONFORMING ALL THIS, BUT IT, BUT FA IS TO DO WITH SIZE.
SO WHAT YOUR CHART, I THINK SHOWS IS THAT THERE ARE ONLY, UM, FOUR CONFORMING
[00:55:01]
LOTS IN YOUR ENTIRE SET.THEY'RE THE, AND THEY'RE NOT SURPRISINGLY THE TOP OF YOUR CHART.
AND OF THOSE FOUR CONFORMING LOTS, YOU'RE ACTUALLY HAVE CURRENTLY ONE OF THE LARGEST COVERAGES.
AND TO MOVE IT DOWN TO WHERE YOU WOULD, AFTER THIS FAR, THERE IS 1 7200, UM, PROPERTY THERE THAT'S NONCONFORMING FOR THE, FOR THE DISTRICT, BUT IT'S PRETTY LARGE.
BUT YOU'RE, YOU'RE COMPARING YOURSELVES TO LOTS THAT ARE 50 TO 75% UNDERSIZED FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD, RIGHT? SO YOU NOW YOU'RE AMONG, YOU'RE COMPARING YOURSELF AT 3,200 SQUARE FEET TO LOTS THAT ARE FOUR OR 5,000 SQUARE FEET.
I'M NOT SAYING ANYTHING, BUT I, I WANNA BE CLEAR, THIS CHART ACTUALLY MAKES THE POINT THAT WE WERE MAKING LAST TIME, WHICH IS THAT IT'S UNUSUAL FOR A FULLY CONFORMING LOT TO ASK FOR BULK VARIANCES, RIGHT? BECAUSE PRESUMABLY FAR THEY HAVE THE MULTIPLIER TO DO IT.
I JUST WANT TO BE CLEAR ABOUT THAT.
BUT YES, UM, UM, I I WE APPRECIATE AND UNDERSTAND THE ANALYSIS, BUT UM, THAT'S, I WANNA BE CLEAR ON WHAT IT'S SHOWING.
I MEAN, UM, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A, UH, THERE'S A NUMBER OF PROPERTIES HERE IN THE CENTER THAT SORT OF GO FROM 40 TO 44, YOU KNOW, SO THERE IS A SOLID NUMBER OF PROPERTIES THAT VERY MUCH, UM, HAVE A SIMILAR, UH, UH, PROPORTION.
AND I UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS EASIER AND I AGREE IT IS EASIER FOR A COMPLIANT LOT TO, UH, UM, STAY WITHIN THE PRESCRIBED NUMBERS THAN IT IS FOR THE SMALLER LOTS.
UM, BUT I THINK MAYBE THE GENERAL IDEA IS THAT IF A SMALLER, IF A LARGER LOT, WHICH BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, IS A, UH, UM, A LOT THAT'S SOMEBODY YOU KNOW IS PAYING MORE TAXES ON PURCHASE FOR A HIGHER PRICE, UM, IF THAT LOT IS NOT ALLOWED ANY LEEWAY, YOU KNOW, IS IT REALLY? BUT AGAIN, I, I DON'T THINK WE HAVE TO GO DOWN THIS ROAD, BUT YEAH, THAT'S THE NATURE OF FAR.
SO IF YOU HAVE 7,500 SQUARE FEET, YES.
YOU'RE GETTING THE ABILITY TO BUILD MORE THAN THE PERSON WITH 5,000 SQUARE FEET.
YOU, YOU BUY A BIGGER LOT, YOU PAY MORE TAXES, YOU'RE ALLOWED TO BUILD MORE.
AND, AND AGAIN, THE ONLY POINT I WAS MAKING IS THAT WE OFTEN DO BULK VARIANCES FOR NON-CONFORMING LOTS.
IT'S PRETTY RARE FOR US TO DO IT FOR A CONFORMING LOT.
AND JUST TO PIGGYBACK ON THAT, THE, THE SAME CHART DOES SHOW, IF I'M UNDERSTANDING THAT THIS WOULD BE BY SQUARE FOOTAGE, THE LARGEST HOUSE AT 32 77, THAT'S LARGER THAN ANY OTHER HOUSE IN ON IN THIS TWO BLOCK SET, TWO BLOCK AREA.
I MEAN THERE'S UM, THIS HOUSE THAT IS ALMOST THE SAME SIZE, RIGHT? THAT'S 30.
THERE ARE A FEW THAT ARE CLOSE.
AND THEN THERE ARE SOME THAT ARE 2800, 2600.
SO THERE ARE, THERE'S ANOTHER 2,600.
SO THERE ARE OTHER, HOW THERE'S A 2,900 HERE.
SO AGAIN, THERE'S A HANDFUL THAT ARE MORE OR LESS VERY SIMILAR IN SIZE.
UM, YOU MENTIONED THAT PART OF THE FAR INCREASE WAS LEGALIZING THE EXISTING ATTIC? NO, NO.
UH, THE, THE EXISTING ATTIC IS LEGAL, BUT IT HAS VERY LOW, UM, HEIGHT.
YOU WALK IN THE CENTER OF THE ATTIC, YOU ACHIEVE THE SEVEN FEET.
AS SOON AS YOU START HEADING TOWARDS THE OUTSIDE WALLS, YOU BUMP YOUR HEAD, THE, THE ROOF GOES DOWN, IT GOES DOWN TO, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY THE, THE WALL PLATE.
SO, UM, WE ARE ADDING DORMERS.
SO, SO YOU'RE WHAT MY POINT, I'M, THIS IS I THINK, BUT WE'RE NOT LEGALIZING IT, BUT MAYBE THAT, MAYBE I MISSPOKE, BUT MAYBE THIS IS THE ANSWER.
SO THIS IS SQUARE FEET THAT'S ALREADY IN THE HOUSE, CORRECT? IT'S NOT COUNTED FOR FAR BECAUSE IT'S UNDER SEVEN FEET.
ALL YOU'RE DOING IS MAKING IT USABLE FOR THE HOMEOWNER.
BUT IT'S NOT LIKE IT'S ADDING NOT, WE'RE NOT ADDING SQUARE FEET THAT WERE NOT OUT OF THIN AIR, RIGHT? NO, NO.
IF YOU LOOK AT THAT, UM, ATTIC FLOOR PLAN, YOU WILL SEE IT IS THAT SAME THIRD FLOOR, WHICH IS LEGAL, EXCEPT WE'RE ADDING, UM, THE HEIGHT, WHICH, AND THAT'S TWO OR 300 OF THE, MAYBE WE SHOULD GET THE EXACT NUMBER OF THE 465 SQUARE FEET.
IT GOES FROM THREE 11 TO 5 35.
[01:00:01]
SO THAT IS 220 SQUARE FEET OF THE 465 THAT'S OVER.SO YES, I THINK THE ARGUMENT HERE MIGHT BE THAT A BIG PIECE OF THAT OVERAGE IS REALLY SQUARE FOOT THAT EXISTED ALREADY.
CAN WE TALK ABOUT, CAN WE GO OVER THAT ONE MORE TIME BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT POINT.
'CAUSE IF WE'RE TRYING TO GET THE KIT, IF YOU'RE THINKING WHAT THE HOUSE NEEDS WITH THE KITCHEN AND THE BED THREE BEDROOMS, RIGHT.
HOW MUCH OF THAT IS THE FAR VERSUS HOW MUCH IS ALREADY EXISTING? YES.
HALF OF THAT FAR ALREADY IS THERE AND YOU'RE JUST MAKING IT LIVABLE.
AND THE OTHER HALF IS THE ACTUAL CHANGE IN WHAT THEY'RE ASKING FOR? YES.
WELL, SO IT'S GOING FROM THREE 11 TO TO 5 35.
THAT'S CLOSE TO HALF AND HALF I IS IT IF THAT'S YEAH.
WITHIN YOUR IDEA OF IT'S DOUBLE IT'S NOT QUITE DOUBLING.
AND THERE'S A CHANGE TO THE DORMER.
SO THERE, THERE IS ACTUAL FLOOR BEING ADDED, BUT FOR THE MOST PART YOU, BUT, BUT THEY'RE NOT HERE ASKING FOR RELIEF FROM HAY OR ANY OF THOSE SORT OF, SO THEY'VE MADE THIS MORE USABLE FOR THE HOMEOWNER AT NO COST TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD FROM A CODE POINT OF VIEW.
THEY'RE NOT ADDING FLOOR SPACE.
AND THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE ADDING HEIGHT, BUT WITHIN, THEY'RE IN A HEIGHT, BUT WITHIN THE ENVELOPE.
FOR THE THIRD FLOOR, THERE'S OBVIOUSLY SQUARE FOR THE SECOND AND A HALF FLOOR.
BECAUSE THERE IS SQUARE FOOTAGE BEING ADDED BY THE FIRST AND SECOND FLOOR.
BUT I, I THINK I'M, I WAS TRYING TO GET AT, UM, HOW MUCH OF THIS 465 OVERAGE ON FAR IS UP HERE IN THE ATTIC VERSUS IN SOME OTHER PLACES.
I THINK THE, THE POINT IS IMPORTANT, BUT IT, IT IT'S ABOUT HEALTH.
IT IS TECHNICALLY ALSO ADDING FLOOR TO THE ATTIC AS WELL, IN ADDITION TO MAKING SOME OF THE SPACE MORE USABLE.
THEY'RE, THEY WERE VERY CAREFUL NOT TO ADD FLOOR 'CAUSE THEY'RE TRYING TO AVOID A SPRINKLE SYSTEM.
I THINK THE ISSUE, BRIAN, IS THAT IF IT'S A, IF IT'S ALREADY FLOORED, BUT IT'S UNDER SEVEN FEET, IT DOESN'T COUNT AS FAR.
SO WHAT THEY'RE DOING IS INCREASING THE AMOUNT OF FLOOR THAT'S ALREADY THERE, THAT'S USABLE FOR THEM.
BUT BY DOING THAT, IT'S, IT'S NOW COUNTED IN FAR JUST LOOKING AT THE EXISTING AND PROPOSED THOUGH THE, THE WALL IS IN A DIFFERENT PLACE.
SO THAT ADDS FLOOR THAT WAS NOT OTHERWISE PREVIOUSLY FLOORED.
NOW I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
THE, THE, LEMME PUT IT THIS WAY.
THE, UM, THE SUBFLOOR EXISTED, IT WAS PROBABLY ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE PONY WALL.
YES, IN THE, IN THE STORAGE SPACE PART OF THE ATTIC.
AND BEHIND IT'S THE RECONFIGURATION OF, OF EXISTING.
RIGHT NOW THAT SPACE IS BEHIND THE NEW WALLS.
WERE MAKING IT PART OF THE SPACE.
SORT OF CLAIMING, CLAIMING THAT NEW WALL SPACE.
UM, I REALIZE THAT I'M PROBABLY THE PERSON WHO WENT BEYOND QUESTIONS, BUT ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON FAR? UM, ENCLOSED PORCH? YES.
UM, I HAVE, I HAVE A QUESTION ON THIS ONE.
IF YOU COULD GO TO YOUR, YOUR NEW ELEVATIONS.
UM, AGAIN, EVERYBODY STATED THAT THERE'S AN ISSUE ABOUT CHARACTER AND WANTING TO KEEP THE CHARACTER OF THIS NEIGHBORHOOD AND LIKING THIS NEIGHBORHOOD.
AND I, I, UM, BETWEEN LAST MONTH AND THIS MONTH, I WALKED ALL THOSE BLOCKS.
UM, AND YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TRYING TO EVALUATE HERE? THANK YOU.
THIS ISN'T FOR DOING DESIGN REVIEW.
I'M REMINDING US ALL THAT THIS ISN'T DESIGN REVIEW, BUT I THINK THE CONVERSATION WE HAD LAST TIME WAS, UM, ALL OF THE REAL PRECEDENTS ARE CLEARLY PORCHES THAT WERE OPEN AND GOT ENCLOSED.
I THINK IF YOU GO TO YOUR NEXT PAGE, I THINK WE COULD PROBABLY MOSTLY SEE THAT.
SO THE QUESTION WAS A QUESTION ABOUT ROOF LINE LAST TIME, AND, UH, ALL OF THOSE THINGS.
THERE'S A LOT OF EXAMPLES ON ELM STREET WHERE YOU CAN SEE THAT IT WAS AN OPEN THING AND THEY DID ONE BAY OR TWO BAYS OR THREE BAYS.
THE SECOND IMAGE ON THE TOP ROW IS A, I THINK, PRETTY, PRETTY TYPICAL, RIGHT? THERE WAS A OPEN PORCH THERE AND THEY CAME IN AND FILLED IT IN.
ACTUALLY I WOULD NOT BE, I WOULD ACTUALLY IMAGINE THAT THIS PORCH WAS BUILT AS AN ENCLOSED PORCH UM, I DUNNO.
UM, IT ALMOST DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE AGAIN, EITHER WAY IT'S CONTEXTUAL.
SO I GUESS THE QUESTION I HAVE IS, AGAIN, NOT IN DESIGN, BUT YOU'RE TELLING US THIS IS THE SAME PORCH FLIPPED OVER FROM THE OTHER SIDE.
AND ENCLOSED JUST TALK ABOUT THE DESIGN AND WHETHER, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHAT IT'LL FEEL LIKE.
UM, SO I WILL GO BACK TO THAT SCHEMATIC.
UM, SO, UM, IF YOU LOOK AT THE ELEVATION, YOU CAN SEE THAT THERE'S
[01:05:01]
THREE BAYS OF THE FRONT PORCH, WHICH ARE CENTERED ON THE HOUSE, WHICH REMAINED THE SAME.AND THEN THERE IS A WRAPAROUND PORTION ON THE LEFT, WHICH RUNS TOWARDS THE REAR, WHICH IS REMOVED.
AND THEN THERE IS A WRAPAROUND PORTION ON THE EAST SIDE, WHICH IS ADDED, WHICH IS ENCLOSED.
AND, UH, IF YOU LOOK AT IT HERE, IT IS ENTIRELY GLAZED.
SO THERE IS STILL A, A FEELING OF, OF A PORCH.
IT'S STILL A ROOM THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, IS FULLY GLAZED AND LOOKS JUST LIKE THAT PORCH ON FRAZIER THAT WE JUST REFERRED TO.
SO IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE A HOUSE.
IT LOOKS, IT LOOKS LIKE AN ENCLOSED PORCH.
I THINK THE ENCLOSED PORCHES WERE ACTUALLY EXTREMELY POPULAR AT SOME POINT, YOU KNOW, EARLY IN THE 20TH CENTURY.
AND, UH, UM, AND PEOPLE EVENTUALLY CHANGED THEIR MIND AND, AND, AND REMOVED A LOT OF THEM.
UM, I, UM, I THINK THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE SORT OF VERY THOROUGHLY RESEARCHED TO SEE WHICH OF THESE PORCHES ARE ORIGINAL AND WHICH ARE NOT.
FOR EXAMPLE, UM, HERE'S A HOUSE THAT I WORKED ON THAT, UM, CAME, WAS A BEAUTIFUL ORIGINAL ENCLOSED PORCH.
AND, UM, YOU KNOW, OVER TIME AND, AND OTHER HOUSES ON EDMAR ALSO HAD THOSE NICE ENCLOSED PORCHES.
AND OVER TIME, THE ANTIQUE GLASS, THE ANTIQUE WOOD, IT FELL APART, IT DRIED OUT, IT STARTED BEING BLOWN OUT BY THE WIND.
SO IT WAS MORE TROUBLE THAN PEOPLE CARED FOR TO MAINTAIN IT.
AND SO, UM, PEOPLE SIMPLY STARTED, YOU KNOW, TAKING THESE PORCHES APART AND, UH, UM, AND THEY BASICALLY LOST, UM, THEY LOST THAT ORIGINAL LOOK AND USE.
BUT BY JUST LOOKING AT MANY OF THEM, YOU SEE THAT THEY WERE, UM, SOME OF THEM ARE NEWER, BUT A LOT OF THEM ARE TRULY, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT CAME WITH THE HOUSES WHEN THEY WERE ORIGINALLY BUILT.
SO I THINK THERE'S A MIX OF, UH, OF BOTH.
UM, AND, UM, SO, SO IN YOUR DESIGN, YOU KEPT THE ROOF LINE, BUT YOU'VE CHANGED ROOF MATERIALS.
SO WHEN WE CAME LAST TIME, THE, UM, THE CLOSE ENCLOSED PORT WAS CONCEIVED AS A, UM, STRUCTURE WITH A RIDGE ROOF.
AND IT KIND OF WAS, UM, ITS OWN, UH, DESIGN AND, UM, IN ORDER TO, UM, YOU KNOW, BE MORE SYMPATHETIC TO THE FRONT PORCHES THAT YOU PREDOMINANTLY SEE ON THE STREET, WE CHANGE THE DESIGN TO GIVE IT THE ROOF OF THE SAME LOW SLOPE AS, AS THE OTHER PORCHES AS THIS PORCH AND THE NEIGHBOR'S PORCH AND ALL THE OTHER PORCHES.
AND, UH, AND THAT HELPS US TO BASICALLY, UM, BLEND IT IN AND, UM, IMAGINE IT SORT OF FITTING IN NICELY.
SO LIKE, IF YOU LOOK AT THIS HOUSE AND THE NEIGHBOR'S HOUSE, IF YOU SEE THIS PORCH BEING HERE AND SORT OF WRAPPING UP AT THAT SAME ROOF SLOPE AND THE SAME PROPORTION, THEN IT FITS RIGHT WITH THE FITS RIGHT WITH THE NEXT HOUSE.
AND, UH, IT'S REALLY NOT THAT DIFFERENT FROM WHAT'S HAPPENING AT THE HOUSE RIGHT NOW, WHICH IS THE WRAPAROUND PORCH THAT HAPPENS HERE.
AND THEN, UH, IF YOU GO UP THE STREET, YOU WILL SEE THERE IS NUMBER OF PROPERTIES, UM, THAT ACTUALLY ALSO HAVE WRAPAROUND PORCHES.
THIS ONE DOES, THE NEXT ONE DOES.
THE WRAPAROUND PORCH REPEATEDLY HAPPENS ON THE STREET.
UM, SO THAT IS NOT A, A UNIQUE FEATURE.
THERE'S SEVERAL WRAPAROUND PORCHES.
AGAIN, I I THINK IF YOU REALLY LOOKED AT ALL OF YOUR EXAMPLES, YOU WOULD SEE THAT THEY'RE ALL CONTINUATIONS.
THE ROOF LINE CONTINUES, THE SKIRT CONTINUES, THE COLUMNS CONTINUE.
YES, BUT, AND YOURS IS NOT DOING THAT.
BUT AGAIN, I THINK NOW YOURS IS DOING IT FROM A BULK MASSING POINT OF VIEW.
AND THAT'S ALL WE'RE LOOKING AT.
SO THERE'S NO DESIGN REVIEW HERE.
UH, I THINK YOU'VE CONFORMED TO THAT IDEA OF A WRAPAROUND PORCH FROM A BULK MASSING POINT OF VIEW.
UM, ANYTHING ELSE ON THE PORCH DEVELOPMENT COVERAGE? ANYBODY? COULD WE GO, YOU HAD THE TABLE WITH THE DEVELOPMENT COVERAGE TOO? YES.
CAN WE LOOK AT THAT AGAIN? UM, SO, UM, WHERE'S MY DEVELOPMENT COVERAGE? IT'S THEN CAN YOU ALSO JUST REMIND US WHERE WE WERE LAST TIME WITH DEVELOPMENT COVERAGE AND WHERE WE'RE NOW? YES, THAT'S WHY I KEPT ALL THIS HERE, SO I COULD SORT OF, UM, GO BACK TO, IT'S, AS YOU CAN SEE, THIS COLUMN THAT'S GRAYED OUT HAS SUPERSEDED, THAT WAS THE PREVIOUS JULY SUBMISSION.
AND NEXT TO IT IS THE PROPOSED AND REVISED.
SO HERE'S THE DEVELOPMENT COVERAGE AND UH, WE WERE 1000 SQUARE FEET OVER AND NOW WE ARE 508
[01:10:01]
SQUARE, 508 SQUARE FEET OVER.AND THEN DID YOU HAVE A TABLE WITH THAT, WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD TOO? AM I REMEMBERING THAT RIGHT? YES.
AND THEN, UM, JUST LIKE THE FAR, UM, HERE IS THE CHART WHICH REFERS TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND UH, UM, GIVES US A, YOU KNOW, BY LOOKING AT THE GREENBERG MAPS AND SCHEMATICS, AS YOU CAN SEE, THERE IS CERTAIN AMOUNT OF INFORMATION THAT CAN BE DERIVED FROM THESE MAPS IN TERMS OF HOW MANY DRIVEWAYS, HOW MANY FRONT WALKWAYS, ET CETERA.
THIS IS NOT ACCURATE, BUT, UM, I HAVE DONE IT BEFORE.
UM, YOU GET AN APPROXIMATE COVERAGE.
UM, THERE'S HANDFUL OF PROJECTS THAT WERE SUBMITTED FOR, YOU KNOW, AND ACTUALLY HAVE THE ACCURATE NUMBERS.
THE REST OF THEM ARE APPROXIMATE, BUT IT BASICALLY TELLS YOU THAT CURRENTLY 11 ELM IS AT 34%.
AND WE ARE PROPOSING TO BE AT THIS SPOT HERE, BUT WE HAVE A BIT OF THE SAME CHALLENGE WHERE, WHERE WE WOULD BE THE ONLY CONFORMING LOT THAT FALLS IN THAT CATEGORY THE SAME WAY WITH THE FDR, BUT IT'S SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT.
IT'S DIFFERENT, SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT.
THERE'S A 10,000 SQUARE FOOT LOT THAT, UH, APPARENTLY 40.
MY COMMENT ON THIS IS THAT YOU DID AN ADMIRABLE JOB.
WE APPRECIATE THESE THINGS, BUT IT'S VERY, THIS IS VERY, UM, DIFFICULT DATA TO ACTUALLY PIN DOWN.
SO I WOULD HATE TO PUT TOO MUCH WEIGHT ON THIS BECAUSE NO, GO AHEAD, PLEASE.
I, I, I THINK ONE OF THE GENERALIZATIONS THE BOARD COULD POTENTIALLY DRAW FROM THIS IS, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT THE CHARACTER OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
IT APPEARS THE CHARACTER OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS PREDOMINANTLY PLOTS THAT ARE OVER DEVELOPMENT COVERAGE.
EVEN THOUGH THESE SQUARE FOOTAGES ARE ARE DIFFERENT, THE BLOCK SIZE ARE DIFFERENT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S THE TREND OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
AND THEN DO THEY, IS THE, THE GARAGE DOESN'T COUNT AS THE DEVELOPMENT COVERAGE, OR IT DOES, IT DOES, BUT IT'S NON-CONFORMING.
SO IS IT COUNTED IN THIS 'CAUSE THEY'RE GETTING RID OF THAT, SHE'S MADE THE DEDUCTION SO THE DEDUCTION'S ALREADY COUNTED? YES.
WELL THE, I THINK, YOU KNOW, YOU ARE MAKING AN EXTREMELY, UH, IMPORTANT POINT, WHICH IS THAT WE CAN LOOK AT THE NUMBERS AND WE CAN LOOK AT THE CHARTS, BUT YOU CAN SEE THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, THIS PROPERTY STILL SITS VERY COMFORTABLY ON ITS LOT AND DOES NOT APPEAR OVERDEVELOPED.
AND, UM, THERE ARE MANY HOUSES THAT ARE A VERY TIGHT FIT FOR THEIR LOT, WHICH WE KNOW WE LOOKED AT THE NUMBERS.
ALSO, THIS IS NOT LIKE WE ARE PROPOSING A DEVELOPMENTAL COVERAGE BY A GIANT TWO STORY HOUSE.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A VERY SUBSTANTIAL PORTION OF THIS COVERAGE BEING THE SWIMMING POOL.
AND THE SWIMMING POOL IS A BODY OF WATER, WHICH IS A, A SORT OF A, YOU KNOW, A NATURAL, UH, UM, ENVIRONMENT.
IT'S, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE A LOT OF HOUSES THAT BASICALLY HAVE DECKS THAT COVER ALMOST ALL OF THEIR BACKYARD.
UM, AND, UM, THIS IS NOT EVEN A DECK.
HOWEVER, UM, IT DOESN'T, IT'S NOT AS AWFUL OR DETRIMENTAL AS A STRUCTURE WOULD BE.
UM, WELL, AGAIN, I I, I DON'T, THIS IS NOT TO DO WITH YOUR APPLICATION, BUT I, I DO WANT TO CORRECT THE POINT.
THE, THE ZONING CODE PURPOSE OF COVERAGE IS ABOUT PERMEABILITY AND OPEN LAND AND WATER RUNOFF.
SO THE POOL, THE WATER PART WE JUST CLARIFIED WAS NOT COUNTED, BUT IN TOTAL, THIS PROPERTY HAS MORE IMPERMEABLE SURFACES THAN THE CODE OT.
THE CODE REQUIRES AND POOL COUNTS.
THE POOL COUNTS, ACTUALLY THE WATER COUNT COUNT, IT DOES COUNT.
IT'S ACTUALLY ONE OF THE MORE SILLY CODES.
I FIND THAT A SWIMMING POOL COUNTS AS IMPERVIOUS SURFACE WHEN IT HOLDS WATER.
WELL, I GUESS IT ONLY HELPS SIX OR FEET, BUT, BUT IT DOES
SO AGAIN, THIS IS NOT ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE ARGUMENT, BUT I'M JUST, I WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE CORRECTING THE ZONE, THE ZONING PURPOSES HERE AND THE, THERE, THE REAL ZONING PURPOSE IS, YOU KNOW, IS ABOUT PERMEABILITY.
AND THIS PROPERTY AS PROPOSED WILL HAVE LESS PERMEABILITY.
I JUST WANT TO BE VERY CLEAR ON IT THAT WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT THE PAVING IN THE YARD, ONLY THE CURB COUNTS.
BUT WHEN IT COMES TO DEVELOPMENTAL COVERAGE, THE BODY OF WATER COUNTS.
UM, SO IF THE POOL, IF THE POOL'S 450 SQUARE FEET AND THIS IS 508 SQUARE FEET, SO MOST OF IT IS THE POOL.
IT REALLY IS ABSURD BECAUSE YOU SHOULD BE LOOKING AT DEVELOPMENTAL COVERAGE AS RUNOFF AND WHAT THE RUNOFF, UM, MEANS TOWARDS THE NEIGHBORHOOD OR TOWARDS WHAT, SEE HOW PRODUCTIVE THESE QUESTIONS ARE.
AND IN FACT, IF WE DID NOT HAVE THE POOL, WE WOULD BE BELOW THAT DEVELOPMENTAL COVERAGE.
WE WOULD ACTUALLY BE COMPLIANT.
[01:15:01]
A REQUIRED YARD? ALRIGHT, TAKE A QUICK BREAK.ACKNOWLEDGE IT DOESN'T APPEAR TO BE ANYBODY FROM THE PAR PUBLIC.
WERE ANY LETTERS RECEIVED ON THIS PROJECT? NOT SINCE LAST MONTH.
ONE OF THE POINTS IN THE LETTERS RECEIVED LAST MONTH WAS THE NEIGHBORS AT 15 ELM HAD A PREFERENCE FOR A ONE AND A HALF FEET LARGER SIDE VARIANCE.
AND WE ACTUALLY MADE IT THREE FEET.
SO WE ACTUALLY EXCEEDED THAT REQUEST.
ALRIGHT, SO, UM, NOW WE CAN FIGURE OUT HOW WE WOULD LIKE TO TALK ABOUT THESE THINGS.
UM, I COULD, AND IN THE END, UM, UNLESS WE COME TO SOME OTHER AGREEMENT, WE WOULD VOTE ON ALL OF THEM AS A PACKAGE.
THAT WOULD BE GREAT FOR MY RESOLUTION,
UM, HOWEVER YOU WANNA TAKE IT.
I MEAN, ALRIGHT, I, I'M GOING TO PROPOSE ONES THAT I SENSE ARE GOING TO BE LESS CONTROVERSIAL AND MOVE THEM OUT OF THE WAY.
SO STARTING WITH THE BOTTOM, IS THERE ANYBODY WHO HAS ANY CONCERNS USING THE TEST OF THE FIVE FACTORS AND USING THE BALANCING OF BENEFIT TO THE APPLICANT VERSUS DETRIMENT TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD? ABOUT NUMBER SEVEN, PARKING IN A, UH, REQUIRED YARD, SIR? I THINK THE THINKING HERE, JUST GENERALLY TO SUMMARIZE IS THAT, UM, THIS IS AN EXISTING CONDITION AND IT'S BEING MOVED TO THE OTHER SIDE.
UM,
ANY THOUGHTS ABOUT, UM, THE ENCLOSED PORCH, UM, AS PROPOSED, UH, AND THE, THE REQUIRED SETBACK FOR FRONT YARD? AGAIN, KEEPING IN MIND THE FIVE FACTORS AND THE BALANCING.
NO, AND I, I FEEL LIKE THAT'S CONSISTENT WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD AS WELL, SO, ALL RIGHT.
SEVEN AND FIVE IN PRETTY GOOD SHAPE.
UM, DO WE WANT TO TAKE THE TWO POOL ONES TOGETHER? I, THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT.
THERE WAS SOME QUESTIONING ABOUT WHETHER THE POOL COULD BE SHIFTED OR, UM, REDUCED IN SIZE.
SO MAYBE I COULD SHARE MY THING.
'CAUSE I, I AM, I THINK THEY'VE DONE A LOT OF WORK ON THE POOL.
I WANT THEM TO HAVE THEIR POOL.
I THINK THE, JUST THE DEVELOPMENTAL COVERAGE IS MOSTLY ABOUT THE POOL, THE YARD, REAR YARD SETBACK.
WHAT I AM STRUGGLING WITH IN THE FIVE FACTORS WITH THE SIDE YARD SETBACK IS IF THERE'S ANOTHER WAY TO DO IT.
AND I WOULD ARGUE THAT THERE IS ANOTHER WAY TO DO IT, WHICH IS TO SCOOCH IT OVER 3.4 FEET AND NOT GET THAT VARIANCE.
AND THAT, I'M STRUGGLING WITH THAT ONE.
CAN I ASK YOU TO MAYBE BALANCE THAT AGAINST THE FIRST FACTOR WHICH ASKS YOU TO CONSIDER WHETHER THERE'S AN UNDESIRABLE CHANGE IN THE CHARACTER OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD OR DETRIMENTAL IMPACT NEARBY PROPERTIES BY GRANTING THE VARIANCE? JUST PARTICULARLY IN LIKE, WE SAW PICTURES OF, OF, OF THE CONTEXT AROUND THE POOL, ABOUT THE GARAGES AND THE SCREENING.
I JUST LIKE HEAR ABOUT LIKE, BALANCE THOSE TWO KIND OF COMPETING FACTORS.
I MEAN, IN TERMS OF DETRIMENTAL TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THEY'RE, THEY'RE ON A CONFORMING LOT AND THEY'RE ASKING TO ENCROACH IN A WAY THAT I DON'T THINK THEY NEED TO.
UM, SO I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION.
IN TERMS OF THE IMPACT TO THE NEIGHBOR HAVING THE POOL THREE FOOT, FOUR INCHES FARTHER AWAY FROM THE NEIGHBOR, IT'S PROBABLY A BENEFIT TO THE NEIGHBOR, BUT IT'S NOT THAT I DON'T, I CAN'T GAUGE THAT IT FROM THE WINDOWS YOU WOULD SEE THE POOL.
IT'S NOT ABOUT THIS WAY OR THAT WAY.
IT'S ABOUT, SO I JUST, I STRUGGLE WITH IT.
I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT FACTOR THAT IS.
UM, THAT THERE ISN'T ANOTHER WAY TO DO IT.
SO I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING ABOUT IMPACT, BUT, AND I ALSO THINK THEY'VE DONE A LOT OF WORK ON THE POOL, BUT IT JUST, I'M STRUGGLING WITH THAT ONE.
I THINK, UM, UH, UM, I THINK I'M, I'M TRYING TO COME AROUND TO IT AND BASED ON, I HAVE TWO, BASED ON TWO THINGS, UM, IN WHAT THE ATTORNEY SAID IS THAT WE ARE ENCROACHING THREE FEET, TWO CLOSE TO A PROPERTY LINE THAT HAS GIANT TREES.
AND I THINK THAT DOES MITIGATE MY CONCERNS ABOUT THE DETRIMENT TO THE NEIGHBOR.
AND THEN, YOU KNOW, I THINK YOU POINTED THIS OUT, THE POOL IS BASICALLY HAS A ZERO Z HEIGHT.
IN OTHER WORDS, IT HAS NO PHYSICAL PRESENCE.
SO THE WHOLE POINT, AND WE TALKED ABOUT THIS LAST TIME OF THE POOL SET SETBACKS, I THINK IS ABOUT NOISE MITIGATION.
SO WE WOULD HAVE TO BE CONVINCED THAT MOVING AT THREE FEET YEAH.
WOULD MAKE IT SIGNIFICANTLY LESS NOISY TO THE NEIGHBOR.
AND THAT, FRANKLY, I'M NOT, THAT WOULDN'T CONVINCED OF THAT.
THE SHRUBBERY IN THE GARAGE ALSO BUFFER.
SO I, I'M NOT, I'M NOT TELLING YOU WHAT TO THINK, BUT THIS IS HOW
[01:20:01]
I'M SORT OF TRYING TO COME AROUND.THIS IS GREAT FOR THE RESOLUTION
AND I'M NOT SURE THEY COULD DO IT ANYMORE.
YOU'RE, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT TWO AND DECIDE, I DON'T KNOW.
YOU GUYS FEEL, AND I THINK I'M, I THINK I'M GETTING THERE ON TWO.
I JUST, SO WAIT, CAN WE GO THROUGH THE FIVE FACTORS FOR TWO? 'CAUSE I THINK THAT WOULD BE A BENEFICIAL EXERCISE.
SO FOR THE FIVE FACTORS, UM, WHETHER AN UNDESIRABLE CHANGE WILL BE PRODUCED IN THE CHARACTER OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD OR A DETRIMENT TO NEARBY PROPERTIES WILL BE CREATED BY THE GRANTING OF THE AREA VARIANCE.
YOU THINK WE YOU'RE SAYING NO, I'M, I I AGREE WITH YOU.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU GUYS, I DON'T, I DON'T THINK IT'S DETRIMENTAL.
I DON'T, I THINK THE FACT THAT THERE'S A WINDOW THERE, BUT IT'S FROM A GARAGE, RIGHT.
IT'S, IT'S AN ORNAMENTAL WINDOW FOR THE MOST.
AND I, AND I THINK THAT, THAT I I'M EXACTLY WHERE YOU ARE BECAUSE IIII DO UNDERSTAND THAT IT WOULD BE EASY ENOUGH TO KIND OF MOVE THE POOL ON THE OTHER HAND IN, IN A REALISTIC SENSE.
THERE IS LIKE, LIKE, LIKE STUFF THERE.
THE APPLICANT IS TELLING US IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE TO THEM.
ON, ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE LEDGER.
AND AGAIN, THESE FIVE FACTORS, THEY HELP YOU BALANCE THE BENEFIT TO THE APPLICANT AGAINST THE DETRIMENT TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
SO I THINK ONE SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE ALL GOOD WITH WHETHER THE BENEFITS ARE BY THE APPLICANT CAN BE ACHIEVED BY SOME METHOD FEASIBLE FOR THE APPLICANT TO PURSUE OTHER THAN THE AREA VARIANCE.
THIS ONE WE HAVE TO SAY IT'S POSSIBLE YES.
BUT BECAUSE THE BENEFIT'S STILL A POOL, YOU KNOW, THE BENEFIT'S STILL A POOL THAT'S AND A GARDEN AND A GARDEN, THEY CAN HAVE BOTH A POOL AND A GARDEN.
THE GARDEN IS A VERY IMPORTANT BENEFIT.
I MEAN, WE'RE, YOU KNOW, IS A 20 FOOT WIDE GARDEN NOT A BIG A BENEFIT AS A 17 FOOT WIDE GARDEN? MAYBE.
UH, WHETHER THE REQUESTED AREA VARIANCE IS SUBSTANTIAL.
SO I THINK WE'VE BEEN STRUGGLING WITH THIS IN TOTALITY VERSUS, WELL, I THINK PARTICULARLY FOR THIS ONE, I THINK FOR THIS ONE, I THINK NO.
WHETHER THE PROPOSED VARIANCE WILL HAVE, I'M SORRY, WHETHER THE PERSEVERANCE WILL HAVE AN ADVERSE EFFECT OR IMPACT ON THE PHYSICAL ENVIRONMENTAL CONDITIONS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OR DISTRICT.
I THINK WE'RE SAYING NO TO THAT ONE.
AND THEN THE LAST ONE IS, UH, WHETHER THIS, WHETHER THE ALLEGED DIFFICULTY WAS SELF-CREATED, WHICH CONSIDERATION SHOULD BE RELEVANT, UH, TO OUR DECISION, BUT NOT NECESSARILY PRECLUDE IT.
WE ACKNOWLEDGE ALL THE TIME THAT THEY COULD NOT HAVE A POOL.
I MEAN, IT'S SELF CREATED IN THE MOST BASIC SENSE, BUT NOT UNREASONABLE.
UH, ANY OTHER DISCUSSION ABOUT THE POOL SIDE YARD? ALL RIGHT.
UM, I'M TRYING TO THINK WHERE TO MOVE NEXT.
HOW ABOUT PAVING IN A REQUIRED YARD? UM, THAT'S FINE.
IT'S LESS THAN WHAT'S THERE, RIGHT? THEY REDUCED, YEAH.
SO I I'M PRETTY COMFORTABLE WITH THAT.
UM, AND THEN MAYBE WE LOOK AT DEVELOPMENT COVERAGE.
UH, AGAIN, WE, WE HAD A LONG CONVERSATION ABOUT THIS IN THE QUESTION PERIOD, AND I THINK WHERE WE NETTED OUT WAS THAT THE OVERAGE ON COVERAGE IS SIMILAR TO THE SIZE OF THE POOL, BASICALLY.
IT'S BASICALLY THE LITTLE PLUS A LITTLE MORE 4, 5 50, SOME OF WHICH, WELL, THE 400, I MEAN, CAN WE GO TO YOUR FOUR 50? THE FOUR 50 IS INCLUDES THE, THE HARD PAVING AND I, I, SORRY, I MEANT MORE THE DRAWING, THE HARD PAVING AND THE PART THAT'S WATER.
IT'S, UH, IF YOU LOOK AT IT HERE, YOU CAN SEE THAT, UM, THE CURB IS TWO 80 AND THE POOL ITSELF IS FOUR 50 AND THE AVERAGE IS 5 0 8.
SO, SO THE FULL 58 MORE THAN, YEAH.
SO THE POOL REALLY ACCOUNTS FOR 730 SQUARE FEET.
AND AGAIN, IF WE'RE GOING BACK TO, WHICH IS WHAT I'VE BEEN DOING, THE INTENT OF THE ZONING, THE INTENT OF THE ZONING IS TO LIMIT IMPERIAL, IMPERIAL IMPERMEABLE SURFACE.
AND THE CODE RECOGNIZES A POOL AS IMPERMEABLE FOR SOME REASON.
BUT WE MIGHT SAY THAT IT'S NOT, THAT'S NOT AS CRAZY AS BUILDING A PARKING LOT
YEAH, THAT'S A VERY GOOD WAY TO PUT IT.
UH, ANY OTHER THOUGHTS, CONCERNS, OR COMMENTS ON DEVELOPMENTAL COVERAGE? NO.
THAT LEAVES FAR UM, AND THIS IS THE ONE THAT I'M, I'M STRUGGLING WITH THE MOST.
UM, I, I GO BACK ACTUALLY, AND THIS IS, THIS IS ABOUT THE FAR, THE, THE
[01:25:01]
DISCUSSION ABOUT THE DORMERS IN THE AREA OF THE ATTIC, THERE IS AN INCREASE TO BULK, RIGHT? THE, JUST THE MASS, THE FEEL OF THE, OF THE BUILDING FROM THE OUTSIDE, WHICH IN MANY WAYS IS WHAT MATTERS, RIGHT? BECAUSE THE DORMERS ARE, THE WALL OF THE DORMER IS MOVING OUT, THE, THE ROOF LINE IS MOVING UP, IT'S MAKING THE SPACE INSIDE MORE, MOREIT'S ADDING TO THAT VOLUME AND IT COMES FROM SOMEWHERE AND IT IS MAKING IT INTO A LARGER BUILDING.
IT'S DOING THAT IN A WAY THAT ALSO IS CAPTURING SPACE THAT'S ALREADY THERE.
AND SO THE, THE BENEFIT TO THE INTERIOR OUTWEIGHS WHAT'S BEING SORT OF BROUGHT FROM THE OUTSIDE.
SO IT, IT, IT'S ADDING MORE THAN, THAN IT'S, IT'S SORT OF TAKING, BUT BY GOING FROM TWO SMALLER DORMERS TO A CONTINUOUS STORMER THAT'S MOVED FORWARD AND HAS A DIFFERENT ROOF LINE, IT, IT IS MAKING A MEANINGFUL DIFFERENCE TO THE OUTSIDE.
BUT I THINK WHAT I WOULD SAY MAYBE TO THAT IS THAT IT'S AS OF RIGHT IN HEIGHT AND BULK.
SO I WOULD FEEL TOTALLY DIFFERENTLY IF THEY WERE GAINING THESE SQUARE FOOTAGES AND ALSO ASKING US FOR RELIEF ON HEIGHT.
THEY'RE DOING IT IN A, THEY'RE GETTING THAT BENEFIT IN A WAY THAT OBJECTIVELY IS NOT HARMING THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
BECAUSE I, JUST TO BE CONSISTENT MYSELF, I'VE SAID THAT THE BASE ZONING STANDARD IS THE PUBLIC INTEREST.
AND YES, I SAID EVEN GOING BEYOND THAT, WE'VE ALREADY SOME DETRIMENT.
BUT THE FLIP SIDE HAS TO BE TRUE.
IF THEY DO SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T REQUIRE A VARIANCE, THEN THEY'RE DOING SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN DEEMED BY ZONING TO BE OKAY.
BUT THEN WHEN IT COMES TO THE FAR AND THE VOLUME, IF YOU BUILD OUT THE ENTIRE BUILDABLE VOLUME, YOU'RE WAY OVER ON THE FAR BECAUSE YOU EITHER DO THIS OR THAT.
THE CUMULATIVE EFFECT OF DOING BOTH IS MORE THAN DOING ONE OR THE OTHER.
SO EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE NOT NECESSARILY NONCONFORMING WITH THE ENVELOPE TO, TO USE MORE OF THE THIRD FLOOR OR TO GO FURTHER OUT IN THE BACK, DOING BOTH TOGETHER MAKES GREATER VOLUME THAN WAS INTENDED.
UM, I THINK MAYBE THE MITIGATING FACTOR IS THE FACT THAT TOWARD THE REAR YOU DO HAVE TWO GARAGES.
SO THE, THE FELT IMPACT OF THAT ADDITIONAL MASS, MOST OF WHICH IS GOING TOWARD THE REAR, YOU KNOW, THERE'S, THERE IT'S NOT A YARD, UH, TO THE ADJACENT PROPERTIES, WHICH I THINK WOULD BE APPEAL THE MOST.
I THINK YOU COULD MAKE THE ARGUMENT THAT YOU'RE TAKING THE VOLUME OF THE GARAGE AND PUTTING IT IN SOME SENSES AS PART OF THE LARGER CENTER BUILDING OF THE PREVIOUS RIGHT.
MAYBE THAT IS A SOMEWHAT MORE POSITIVE, THE NEIGHBORHOOD OR THE NEIGHBORHOOD GARAGE DOESN'T POINT OUT ANOTHER, IT DOES COUNT AS FAR WAS GONNA BE MY, MY QUESTION TO EVA, WHEN YOU DID YOUR YES.
EXISTING ANALYSIS, DID YOU INCLUDE THE GARAGE? YES.
UM, ACTUALLY I'M SURE THOUGH, I DON'T KNOW 'CAUSE THAT'S A VERY, VERY SMALL NUMBER AND THE F 0.289 ON THAT HOUSE WITH THAT GARAGE.
ARE YOU SURE ABOUT THAT NUMBER? I WILL GO BACK AND CHECK IN A SECOND.
MAYBE I DID NOT INCLUDE A GARAGE IN THE EXISTING FAR.
WHAT I WANTED TO SAY WAS THAT, YOU KNOW, I THINK EVERYONE IN THIS ROOM WOULD HAVE THE, UM, CONCERN ABOUT SORT OF, UM, THE CHARACTER INCONSISTENCY AND LET'S SAY WE'RE INCREASING THE FAR BY ADDING THIS NEW ADDITION IN THE BACK AND ADDING, AS YOU'RE SAYING, SORT OF A BULK OF THE HOUSE.
UM, THE REASON I PREPARED THIS SCHEMATIC WAS TO SHOW THAT, UM, THIS HOUSE RIGHT NOW, UM, HAS MUCH MORE OF A DISTANCE FROM THEIR REAR PROPERTY LINE THAN ITS NEIGHBORS.
AND EVEN BY ADDING THIS NEW KITCHEN AND THIS NEW VOLUME ONTO THIS HOUSE, WE REALLY JUST ARE CATCHING UP WITH OTHER HOUSES ON THE BLOCK, WHICH BASICALLY PROTRUDE FURTHER BACK, YOU KNOW, SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE NOT TERRIBLY CONCERNED ABOUT THIS ADDITION BEING OUT OF PLACE BECAUSE WE'RE JUST LINING UP WITH OTHER IMPROVEMENTS THAT, UM, PEOPLE HAVE MADE OVER THE PAST A HUNDRED YEARS AND THEY HAVE ADDED ON TO THE BACK.
AND THEN WE BASICALLY ARE MAINTAINING THAT LINE THAT HAPPENS THERE.
I GET THAT WITH THE ALIGNMENT.
BUT THE FAR QUESTIONS ARE REALLY IMPORTANT IF THE GARAGE WAS INCLUDED IN THE EXISTING OR NOT.
CAN WE CONFIRM THAT? 'CAUSE THAT, 'CAUSE THAT'S A REALLY, I'M GOING TO, IT'S REALLY BIG DIFFERENCE.
I'M GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT IT RIGHT NOW BECAUSE THE RELATIVE CHANGE WOULD BE SMALLER.
WE'RE MAKING A WHOLE ARGUMENT THAT, THAT THEY'RE TAKING THAT VOLUME AND MOVING IT THIS WAY AND IT'S EITHER COUNTED OR NOT.
I SHOULD BE ABLE TO SEE IT IN THIS CHART.
UM, SO WHAT I INCLUDED IN THE FAR CALCULATION
[01:30:01]
IS THE, UM, FIRST FLOOR, THE SECOND FLOOR AND THE ATTIC.AND THE TRUTH IS, I DID NOT INCLUDE THE EXISTING GARAGE IN THE FAR, WHICH, WHICH HAS, IT HAS GONE THROUGH A REVIEW A COUPLE OF TIMES AND THANK YOU FOR POINTING IT OUT.
AT THIS POINT, THERE IS ANOTHER 400 SQUARE FEET OF EXISTING FR 2020 BY 2000 SQUARE.
WELL, IT'S OLDER, SO MAYBE A LITTLE SMALLER, BUT STILL HUNDREDS OF SQUARE FEET.
IT'S 400 SQUARE FEET, IT'S ABOUT 20 BY 20 FEET GARAGE.
SO IF WE ADD THE 400 SQUARE FEET TO THAT, THEN, UM, YOU KNOW, INSTEAD OF ASKING FOR INSTEAD OF 4 65 OVER, WE WOULD BE 65 OVER OR HOWEVER, YOU KNOW, THEN YOU PROCESS THE NUMBERS.
YOU SEE IT'S, I DON'T THINK YOU'RE STILL ASKING FOR WHAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR.
WE'RE STILL ASKING WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR.
IT'S, IT'S JUST RELATIVE VALUE.
IT'S KIND OF LIKE THE ARGUMENT YOU MADE ABOUT THE COVERAGE WHERE YOU SAID IT WOULD BE THE COMPARISON BETWEEN THE TWO BECAUSE YOU'RE COMPARING A 0.437 TO A 0.289, WHICH IS A VERY LARGE COMPARISON.
I MEAN THAT'S A VERY LARGE DIFFERENCE.
UM, THE EXISTING GARAGE IS, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE VARIANCE PORTION OF IT.
I THINK IT'S THE SAME, RIGHT? CORRECT.
SO THE EXISTING GARAGE IS 403 SQUARE FEET.
SO, UM, THE RELATIVE INCREASE WOULD BE THAT'S A FLOOR OF THE ADDITION MOLAR.
THIS 450 NUMBER JUST KEEPS COMING UP.
BUT, BUT I MEAN, 'CAUSE FAR ALWAYS GIVES US PAUSE.
YEAH,
'CAUSE IN ALL HONESTY, I IT, AND I KNOW I'M NOT A BOARD MEMBER, BUT I FIND IT, I FIND THE VARIANCE, THE 0.062, NOT NEARLY AS PROBLEMSOME AS I FIND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 0.289 AND 0.437
BUT THEN AGAIN, I, THAT'S JUST MY, MY OPINION.
SO THE VARIANCE IS BASICALLY THE SECOND FLOOR.
IF YOU, IF WE WERE TO SAY JUST FROM A RIGHT.
THE VARIANCE IS THE SECOND FLOOR.
YOU COULD SAY YOU HAVE YOUR KITCHEN, YOU HAVE YOUR SECOND FLOOR.
ALL THEY'RE ASKING FOR IS ANOTHER BEDROOM ON THE SAME FLOOR AS THEIR KIDS.
THE VARIANCE IS ACTUALLY 465 SQUARE FEET.
THAT'S BASICALLY THE SECOND FLOOR.
DOES THE, UM, DOES THE ENCLOSING OF THE PORCH MAKE IT FAR WHEN IT WOULDN'T OTHERWISE BE? YOU? GOOD QUESTION.
THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION ACTUALLY.
UM, I, MY GUESS IS YES, BUT HOW DID YOU CALCULATE IT? WE NEED TO, I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT THAT.
SO THE, UM, IT WAS 9 37 WAS LIKE, IT DOESN'T ADD A BULK RIGHT.
VISUAL BECAUSE IT IS ONLY IF IT'S HABITABLE SPACE, IT HAS TO BE HABITABLE SPACE.
SO IT WOULD HAVE TO BE HEATED.
IT'S NOT, IF IT'S A THREE SEASONS ROOM, IT WOULDN'T BEG, IT'S NOT COUNTED.
'CAUSE YOU DON'T INTEND TO CONDITION IT.
AND UM, I ALSO JUST WANT TO MENTION, YOU KNOW, ABOUT THE CONVERSATION ABOUT THE ATTIC AND THE DORMERS AND THE BULK.
UM, YOU KNOW, IF YOU, IF YOU WALK THE STREET, I'M SURE YOU COULD SEE THIS, BUT ALSO IF YOU LOOK AT THIS GOOGLE VIEW, RIGHT? SO YOU CAN SEE THAT SORT OF THE GABLES, THE DORMERS, UM, YOU KNOW, LIKE FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU LOOK AT THIS HOUSE, IT HAS THE, THE CONTINUOUS SHED DORMER ON BOTH SIDES OF THE ROOF.
THERE'S MULTIPLE DORMERS ON ALL OF THESE HOUSES.
SO, UM, THE DORMERS ARE VERY MUCH PART OF THE APPEARANCE OF THESE HOUSES AND THE BULK OF THE HOUSES AND THE LOOK OF THE STREET.
AND THIS HOUSE IS KIND OF ACTUALLY UNIQUE THAT AS OF TODAY, IT DOES NOT HAVE DORMERS.
UM, AND, UH, ALL OF THESE OTHER HOUSES HAVE PERPENDICULAR GABLES OR HAVE DORMERS OR HAVE SIMILAR SORT OF ADDITIONAL HEIGHT IN THAT THIRD FLOOR.
SO YEAH, THE ENCLOSED PORCH COUNT, IT DOES COUNT TOWARDS THE DEFINITION OF, OF A FLOOR AREA.
DOESN'T MAKE ANY REFERENCE TO, TO CONDITIONING.
SO IT, IT SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDES OPEN PORCHES.
SO BY EXCLUDING OPEN PORCHES, THE IMPLICATION IS
[01:35:01]
ENCLOSED PORCHES ARE INCLUDED.IS IT, IS IT COUNTED HERE? NO, THAT'S THE QUESTION.
SO IT DID YOU, DID YOU COUNT THE CLOSED PORCH IN YOUR FAR? NO, BECAUSE I FIGURED IT WAS UNHEATED, NOT HABITABLE.
UM, IT SOUNDS LIKE NUMBER FOUR, BOTH THE NUMBERS MIGHT BE WRONG, RIGHT? BECAUSE IF THE GARAGE IS NOT INCLUDED AND THE ENCLOSED, SO WE MIGHT HAVE TO, SO THE ENCLOSED PORCH IS 242 SQUARE FEET AND THE GARAGE IS 403 SQUARE FEET.
RIGHT? SO IT'S STILL LESS OF A MM-HMM
SO THE NUMBER IS OFF BY ABOUT 160 SQUARE FEET.
IF, IF THAT'S HOW IT WOULD BE LOOKED AT, YES.
IN, IN TERMS OF VOTING ON THE, UH, I'M MORE CONCERNED ABOUT VOTING ON THE LANGUAGE.
SO THAT WOULD MAKE, SO THAT WOULD MAKE THE POTENTIAL ARY VARIANCE, UH, LARGER THAN WHAT WAS NOTICED.
SO THE BOARD WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO ACT ON THAT.
IF IT WAS SMALLER, THE BOARD WOULD BE ABLE TO VOTE TONIGHT.
'CAUSE YOU CAN OVER NOTICE, BUT WE CAN'T UNDER NOTICE.
SO CAN WE DO THE OTHER ONES OR, SO IF WE CAN LEAVE TO THE APPLICANT AND THE BOARD, YOU KNOW, IF, IF YOU WOULD LIKE, THE BOARD CAN VOTE ON THE OTHER VARIANCES, YOU HAVE TO COME BACK FOR FAR UNFORTUNATELY.
'CAUSE WE HAVE TO GET THE NUMBERS CORRECT.
OR YOU CAN WAIT AND HAVE THE BOARD VOTE ON ALL OF 'EM AT ONCE.
UM, CAN I ASK ONE MORE QUESTION? YEAH.
UM, STRUCTURES LIKE SHEDS DO NOT COUNT.
SHEDS DO NOT COUNT, RIGHT? SO WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A STORAGE SHED AND A GARDEN SHED AND AN ENCLOSED PORCH, RIGHT? IF THEY'RE ALL ENCLOSED BUT NOT HEATED? UM, I'M JUST SORT OF TRYING TO WRAP MY HEAD AROUND.
I THINK THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT YOU WERE, UM, PICKING AT LAST MONTH TOO.
I I, I THINK THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN OUTBUILDING THAT ISN'T ATTACHED TO THE HOUSE AND, UH, AND SOMETHING LIKE A PORCH.
AND I KNOW LAST TIME YOU HAD THAT LIKE ONE FOOT GAP AND IT WAS THE WHOLE SORT OF DISCUSSION OF THAT.
I I I'M NOT SAYING I, I KNOW THIS TO BE TRUE, BUT I THINK THE IDEA IS THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, AREAS THAT ARE ADJACENT TO THE COUCH, TO THE HOUSE THAT ARE COVERED.
AND UM, AND THOSE ARE, THESE TWO SHEDS THAT WE HAVE HERE ARE ATTACHED AND ADJACENT TO THE HOUSE.
BUT THEY'RE NOT, UM, ACCESSIBLE FROM THE HOUSE.
IT'S THIS, IT'S THAT YOU CAN WALK RIGHT THROUGH THEM.
WELL, IN, IN ALL ACTUALITY, THE ATTORNEY IS CORRECT IF, IF THE CEILING HEIGHT IS HIGHER THAN SEVEN FEET AND THE SHE COUNTS.
SO WE GOTTA GET OUR FAR SQUARED AWAY THEN.
SO WELL, BEFORE WE GIVE THE CHOICE TO THE APPLICANT, UM, DOES THE BOARD FEEL LIKE THEY CAN VOTE ON THE OTHER SIX WITHOUT THE FAR QUESTION BEING? I THINK SO, YES.
YOU KNOW, COMFORTABLE WITH THAT.
I THINK WE WOULD GO AHEAD AND TAKE THAT VOTE PLEASE.
UM, SO THAT
SO YOU, YOU JUST BEFORE THAT DEVELOPMENT, YOU ASKED TO DO THE FIVE FACTORS FOR THE FAR.
WE'LL, HOLD, HOLD, WE'LL HOLD OFF ON THAT UNTIL IT'S RENO AND RE PRESENTED CORRECTLY.
I SUGGEST MAYBE THAT YOU AND THE BUILDING INSPECTOR MEET, UH, AND GET, UH, YOU GOTTA GET OUR NUMBERS TOGETHER.
SO, UM, I FEEL LIKE WE'VE, THE OTHER, UM, SIX WE HAVE DISCUSSED, UM, SO I THINK WE'RE AT THE POINT OF A MOTION.
WOULD ANYONE LIKE HIM MAKE A MOTION, UM, FOR, I, YOU, I DON'T DUNNO HOW YOU WANNA PHRASE THIS.
ALL OF THE VARIANCE PROPOSED, SIX OF THE SEVEN VARIANCES
WOULD ANYONE LIKE TO MAKE THAT TERRIBLY DIFFICULT MOTION? I DID THE LAST ONE.
I'M REALLY NOT AN ATTORNEY, BUT I'LL DO MY BEST.
YOU'RE THE CLOSEST THING WE ASK.
UH, FOR, UH, CASE NUMBER 10 26.
UH, DEREK TARCI AND LAUREN LINDSTROM.
UM, MOTION TO APPROVE, UH, FOR RELIEF FROM THE STRICT APPLICATION OF VILLAGE CODE SECTIONS 2 9 5 DASH TWO 20 C 2 2 9 5 5 2 A 2 9 5 DASH 5 3 1 2 9 5 DASH SIX NINE F1 A 2 9 5 DASH SIX NINE F TWO, A TWO FOR PROPOSED TWO STORY EDITION, THIRD FLOOR MODIFICATION, FRONT PORCH, UM, NEW DRIVEWAY, NEW DECK, UM, UH, SWIMMING POOL AND STORAGE SHEDS AT THEIR SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING LOCATED AT 11 ELM PLACE.
UH, WE WILL BE VOTING ON THE NON-CONFORMITY DETAILS FOR THE FOLLOWING.
UM, UH, ITEMS, ITEM ONE, ITEM TWO, ITEM THREE, ITEM FIVE, ITEM SIX.
AND FOR THIS VOTE WE'LL BE EXCLUDING ITEM FOUR, WHICH RELATES TO FAR, WHICH IS 2 95 DASH 53.1.
[01:40:01]
UH, I'LL SECOND.ALL RIGHT, WE'LL TAKE A ROLL VOTE RICHARD.
UH, JUST WANNA SAY, I KNOW THAT THIS WAS A TWO MONTH SO FAR PROCESS.
UM, I, I, UM, APPRECIATE THE EFFORTS.
UM, I HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS OUR JOB, UH, AND WE ARE EFFORTING TO DO THAT AS, AS WELL AS WE CAN AND, AND BALANCE ALL OF THESE THINGS.
SO WHATEVER, UM, IS THE FINAL FAR CALCULATION, WE'LL REVIEW THAT NEXT MONTH IF THAT'S WHAT YOU GUYS WANT.
UM, AND, UH, GOOD LUCK AND SO FAR THANK YOU SO MUCH AND WE'LL SEE YOU AGAIN.
AND I MAY HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH THEM IF THEY WANT TO CHANGE THE PLANS TO NOT TO BRING THE FAR DOWN.
AT LEAST THEY CAN GET STARTED ON THE PROJECT.
AND THEN COME BACK BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO, THE DEADLINE WAS TODAY, SO THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE HEARD AGAIN UNTIL OCTOBER.
[Approval of Minutes ]
NEXT UP IS THE APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES.WE HAVE TWO PAST MEETINGS TO APPROVE THE 25TH AND THE JULY 23RD.
UM, WE PROBABLY HAD DIFFERENT COMBINATIONS OF PEOPLE HERE AT THOSE MEETINGS.
WE ONLY HAVE TWO MEMBERS HERE, BRETT AND MYSELF.
SO WE COULD NOT APPROVE THOSE.
SO THAT GIVES, UM, BRETT AND ANYONE ELSE WHO WANTS TO A CHANCE TO, I'LL READ THEM TO READ THEM AND SEE IF THEY WANT TO ATTRIBUTE ANYTHING.
UH, THAT MAY HAVE BEEN MISATTRIBUTED.
UM, DOES ANYONE, I DON'T THINK YOU WERE, UH, DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY CHANGES OR CORRECTIONS TO THOSE MINUTES? NO.
THE ONLY ONE I HAVE IS THAT, AND I DON'T MIND, BUT I, I CONTINUE TO BE THE ACTING CHAIRMAN IN ALL OF THESE MINUTES.
OH, WE, WE, WE DID CHANGE THAT LAST MONTH, SO I DON'T MIND.
YOU SHOULD BE OKAY NOW, SO, BUT WE'LL, WE'LL MAKE SURE THAT THE TRANSCRIPTIONIST GETS THAT CORRECT.
UM, ALRIGHT, WELL, BEYOND THAT, CAN WE HAVE A MOTION TO, UH, APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM THE JUNE 25TH MEETING? THANK YOU.
[Announcements ]
THEN OUR NEXT MEETING IS SEPTEMBER 24TH.UM, IF ANYONE, IF ANYONE KNOWS THEY CAN'T BE HERE, UH, LET LET FOLKS KNOW AS, 'CAUSE WE ARE STILL DOWN A ALTERNATE MM-HMM
LET ME, LET US KNOW, LET MARY ELLEN KNOW, UM, IF THERE'S GONNA BE ANY ISSUES.
I'M REALLY SORRY ABOUT THAT WORK THAT, THAT NIGHT.
MAYBE WE JUST WANNA PULL PEOPLE SOONER THAN, UM, MARY BETH USUALLY DOES.
UH, MARY ELLEN, USUALLY MARY ELLEN, SHE'LL USUALLY SEND OUT A QUORUM LIKE ABOUT A, A WEEK AND A HALF OR SO BEFORE.
UM, SO I CAN SEND HER A NOTE TOO.
AND YOU CAN DEFINITELY JUST REACH OUT TO, UM, THAT, THAT, UH, I KNOW SHE'S BEEN STRUGGLING TO MAKE A COUPLE OF THE MEETINGS, UM, MAYBE JUST TO MAKE SURE SHE'S GONNA BE, YOU KNOW, BE ABLE TO BE HERE.
BECAUSE THEN THE BOARD'S ONLY GONNA BE THREE.
AND THEY HAVE TO HAVE A HUNDRED PERCENT.
SO THAT USUALLY MAKES A STICKY SITUATION.
AND I HAVE TWO NEW APPLICATIONS COMING IN NEXT MONTH, SO, BUT YOU SAID THEY CAN'T MAKE IT FOR OCTOBER? NOT THEM.
I HAVE TWO, I HAVE TWO NEW APPLICATIONS COMING IN FOR NEXT MONTH, SO.
UH, WOULD ANYONE CARE TO MAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN? MOTION TO ADJOURN.
IT WAS, I KNOW IT WAS A DIFFICULT ONE.
YOU GUYS DID A REALLY, REALLY GOOD TO.